Episode 24 - No Spin Intended with Ali Syed

In this episode of Leadership in Colour, Shez Iqbal sits down with Ali Syed, Publisher Partnerships Lead at Roku (Canada, US & Europe), for an insightful conversation about mentorship, career zigzags, and the power of surrounding yourself with the right people.

Ali shares his journey from an intern navigating visa challenges in London to leading partnerships for a global streaming platform, highlighting the pivotal mentors who shaped his career. From unexpected career pivots to the life lessons learned through sports like football and tennis, Ali offers a fresh perspective on leadership, growth, and networking beyond your industry.

If you’re navigating your career, seeking guidance on mentorship, or curious about the behind-the-scenes of Roku’s global partnerships, this episode is packed with actionable insights and inspiring stories.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• How mentorship can shape your career trajectory
• The importance of building a diverse network across industries
• Lessons from sports on focus, strategy, and human psychology
• Navigating career setbacks and turning challenges into opportunities

Tune in to hear Ali’s unique take on leadership, growth, and networking — no spin intended!

Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

I don't think you can get anywhere in your career if you don't have the right people around you. And a lot of times they are experienced leaders. Because you know, your your colleagues are you're all fighting the same battle, you're dealing with the same crap. Um, but a lot of your leadership team or mentors at the time, well, they all start as your colleagues, right? And then eventually you pivot or you put them on a pedestal of like, okay, this person is my mentor, this person is who I look up to, and this is how I want to be. Uh so I 100% have had that. I mean, I'm sitting here because of them to an extent. I'm I don't mean that in like a very poetic way or anything, but it's just truth.

SPEAKER_01: 0:41

I started these conversations to discuss leadership, mentorship, growth, and so much more from voices you may not have heard from before. I hope the conversations inspire you, motivate you, and give you something to think about. It's Leadership in Colour from myself, Jesik Bowl, supported, powered by me. Welcome to Leadership in Colour. Really pleased to have Ali Saeed, Publisher Partnerships for Roku focused on Canada, US, and Europe joining me today. Ali and I go back at least a decade, if not more. Um I have to say it's annoying because you still look pretty young and sprightly, whereas I have blatantly grown.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25

So I had a lot of botox.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

You do a lot of botox. Yeah. So we will I think we should talk a little bit about uh the fountain of youth at some point in this conversation. But Addie, welcome to the the podcast. Really appreciate your time. Why don't you do a better job of introducing yourself than I just did?

SPEAKER_02: 1:40

No, that was great. Yeah, Shaz, um thanks for having me first. This is incredible. I've been I've been listening to Leadership in Color for a while. And you know, last time we met in person, um, I think it's a great initiative you've started. We definitely spoke about the subject, and you've been really keen on getting something going with us, which I'm very, very happy to do. And yeah, like you said, we go way back. So this is great. I'm I'm super, super happy to be here. Um, and yeah, in terms of my job, yeah, my day today, you described it well. So I work at Roku. I look after all of our publisher partnerships in Canada, UK, and Europe. So on the supply side. Um, but I've also been focused on the US market because for people who I'm going to do a bit of name dropping. For people who don't know, uh Roku is the number one streaming platform um in a lot of markets, US being the our biggest market. So I'm also focusing a lot on the East Coast and the West Coast side of things. Um, so yeah, like I said, super happy to be here. I'm looking forward to that for that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:44

Okay, so whenever I've started a new job, I've been asked a couple of questions. One of the things are who's your football team? Of course, we're both amazing people because we're Arsenal fans. Correct. Yeah, I I've got to admit, I've I've also got a soft spot for Crystal Palace. Crystal Palace is my second team, but that's my local team. Right, but also of course. Uh unlike most Asians who are Man United fans. Correct. Yeah, you you get I don't know why. Um you get asked if you can play football, right? So and then and then you get offered maybe to join the the local fiberside team. I'm uh absolutely awful at football, so I never I never really wanted to be the entertainment value off the pitch, sure, no worries, but on the pitch.

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

No, no.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

And then there was these group of people who would get together and you you hear them talk about booking courts and playing tennis. And that's your group, right?

SPEAKER_02: 3:41

Correct. Well, funny you say that. So I I played football in high school. I was growing up, like to your point of like Manchester United and everything was big in India. Hard branding, I think Man United is like the well, used to be the biggest brand uh back then, like no one really cared about Liverpool. Um actually, funny enough, like I've I always like to support an underdog. Okay, this is one of these things I've always had. And one of my high school friends used to be a huge Arsenal fan, and he was like, Oh, and I started getting like watching football, you know, Beckham was big back then, so you know you could watch like the Man United games, and I was like, Oh, I like the sport, it's pretty cool. And he was like, Oh, you should check out this team, Arsenal. Like, they're and they were this was like late in the early 2000s. So Arsenal were like Henri, Perez, and you know, all the best players, and they completely changed the English game at the time. Uh, Arsene Wenger. So I was like, oh, cool, I'll check them out. And then I started like watching them. I was like, oh my god, this is amazing. Like, there's no big player like a Beckham, but as a team, they were fantastic and it was a different brand of football. So that's what re that's what really got me hooked into the football side of things. And I've always been very sporty. So I don't think that's the racket sport I haven't played, and at a decent level, I'm not bad with anything. Like, I I hate doing things I'm not good at. So if I play a sport, I'll be okay with it. It might not be the best, but I'll be decent. And then so I did, and that's when like football started because we were watching so much football. So in Leeds, I used to play football quite a lot. We used to do like a five-aside and stuff. Um, funny enough, that really dropped off when I moved to London because you know, like my priority was how do I buy my dinner as opposed to like, you know, go to a five-aside game in the evening when I first moved. So that dropped off. Um, tennis really came into so I used to play for my school when I was like a teenager, and I used to play competitively, so I was pretty good at it. And then I gave it up for whatever reason, you know, it's one of those things. You just drop sport. Like, I'm also like, I go I'll get into a hobby and then I'll pivot. So I gave up um tennis for years. Then, you know, fast forward COVID happened. It was one of those sports that you could actually play. Um, so I was like, you know what, let me just pick up a racket again. And tennis is a bit like cycling, you don't really forget it. You obviously take your time to like come back and get into the rhythm and all of that. But the first time I remember hitting a ball and spending an hour on the court, and I was like, I I can't believe I've not played it for so long. It's uh it still is. I mean, now it's my main sport. I play about four times a week. Um, it's the only time of my day when I'm completely blank and focused. It's the strategic game, it's uh physically, obviously, you know, you're running, you're like, you have to be really, it's very intense. And it's got a really like it. That's why paddle and all these sports have become big because the the entry, like you can enter it and get pretty decent at it pretty quickly. Tennis needs time dedication, it needs focus, it needs a bit of like coaching, it needs technique and all of that. But ever since COVID, I've just not dropped it, and I don't think I will like till my body allows it, I will continue to play it. Um, and yeah, it's um basically the best thing I do, I think. Um, outside of music.

SPEAKER_01: 7:00

I think tennis is brilliant because with football, you get to uh connect with all sorts of people from across the the industry, of course you do, and and that's fantastic in terms of a very sort of speedy way of networking. There's a I I've always envied envied those people who can turn up in an organization, sign up to the Fiverr side, and all of a sudden within a week they know 30 people and they know them pretty well. And there's an immediate banter, right? Because if you're good, then then of course great. You know, people can uh give you a bit of banter for being good, and if you're not so good, then there's obvious anecdotes there as well. But with tennis, I feel like you get to step into certain rooms and circles with people who perhaps you wouldn't ordinarily step in, you know, step into uh that space with. So, for example, in my local uh gym, I do play tennis with some some of the folks there, and I'm trying to get the kids into tennis, it's just a great way of networking with a good set of quality people. I and I think Paddle is has offered that up a little bit as well, although I don't really know about the clientele paddle. I've I've not I've not played it enough, but from what I can see it looks pretty good. You know, the the people that play it are uh all again seem to be you know uh you know good people as as are for any sports, but I think tennis opens up a great networking uh opportunity. Have you seen that yourself?

SPEAKER_02: 8:23

100%. It's also because a lot of times people think of networking as networking from the people or with the people that you work with or are in your industry, right? Tennis has really opened that up for me where like there's this app called Spin where basically you know within your radius you can find people who have um similar level to you or are much better than you or worse than you, whatever. But obviously, it's not you you're not playing people because they work in media, you you're playing people because you enjoy playing with them, or it's everyone's got their own technique, different styles. Someone's good at a forehand, someone's good at a backhand. So that really definitely like I mean, I've met people who I really wouldn't have in life, and you know, so you could meet somebody who's like working in but in banking, somebody who's like working in technology, somebody who's so you can meet a lot of different people, and they have a very different take on life. Like then we and then it becomes a social thing. So, you know, after 10 years, you're like chatting, like, oh, what do you do? What do I do? Then you have a very different perspective. Like a lot of times they're like, Oh, what's Roku, what's media, what's digital streaming, like how does that work? Who's making money? Who's it opens up a completely different side of conversation? And then you do the same with the other person, and you're like, oh, right, okay, you know, if I was just doing media drinks or going out for a five-a-side game just with media people, it's great. I'm not obviously dissing that side. I think it's an important aspect because you get to learn so much about the wider companies, the wider industry, and so on and so forth. But exploring completely different industries and completely different aspects of work, which you might not have. And and the best thing about these kinds of social events, and I'm sure like you notice this too, is people have their guard down, right? Like when you when you're on the court or when you're on a football pitch, it's not it's not like a formal setup. You're not there to be like, okay, I have to present an image of myself. It's it's raw emotions, you know. Like your senior director or senior VP might just turn around and give you like three swear words because you tackled him bad, you know? So that aspect of it is intriguing to me. And I and I love like human culture, I like um I like a bit of psychology, so I like people like think different, like what ticks people, uh, what keeps people going. So for that aspect, like tennis has opened a completely different side of individuals, which I maybe would not have come across in my day-to-day life.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

So the reality is that I I I couldn't agree with you more. When we talk about networking, we talk about networking from the perspective of go for drinks after work, go to these events, speak to your colleagues, you know, spend some time with them. But as a leader, I think it's really important for us to also seek out other leaders from other industries to find the way that we we think. Because if we keep thinking about things in this vacuum and we we only go to leaders within this vacuum, then that that's gonna be super difficult. There's a there's a chap who I interviewed here, a good friend of mine called Matt Chapman. He worked at Arsenal, and uh and I mean we worked together at The Guardian, but when he he he then got a job at Arsenal as um part of the role was looking after people within hospitality. The the job was bigger than that, but that was part and he got to speak to leaders from a broad spectrum because you think those hospitality tickets are super expensive, right? You're talking about you know a few thousand a pop. And and I I gotta say that that's made him one of my mentors in the way that if I've got uh an issue, I I I know that I can go to him because he's had that experience. So I I do think that networking outside of the industry is is as important, if not more important, than networking within the industry. Of course, networking within the industry because it gets it helps you move your business forward, but networking from outside the industry I think might make you a better leader.

SPEAKER_02: 12:12

Absolutely, and it's also it opens up different opportunities, you know. Like a lot of times, and I don't know if this is how you like a lot of times I feel like the way I think is very sometimes I can get very one track, you know. So it might be as I don't know, like as a mentor or even being as a colleague or as a leader, but and that's because you know, we we just we just cycle to repeat things, so it gets very repetitive. I'm like, okay, this is my job, I know how to do this well. If there's something I don't know how to do well, I'm probably going to try and upskill myself. But it's all still within that little vacuum of my comfort zone. And sometimes when you speak to, like you were saying, you know, leaders from different aspects and not necessarily even very established leaders, right? You can meet someone today who's going to be a much better leader than you in the next three years. So even their journey can teach you so much on how to become a better leader yourself, or how to become a better mentor for somebody. So I think that aspect is very hard to quantify, but it opens up so many different doors. I think, and this is why, I mean, we were talking about it before the podcast, like tennis has been so good for me to just open different sides of my brain, which I was okay, you know, like I was thinking about something in a very straight line, but now I can zigzag it and take benefits from it, and then end up on a straight line, which has its own benefits. So it makes a huge difference. And this is also like I go to a lot of industry events, um, but the volume of those shares, and and you know this, you don't see me a lot of these, has gone down. I I don't do like 10 events that I used to do like five years back, you know, like going to every conference, and because I just I also find them at some point, you know, it gets a bit bit repetitive. But the social aspect of it is great. But there are a couple of events which I always try and go to and attempt to because I get a lot of value out of it. And sometimes they're not even directly talking about connected TV or television or streaming, because it's again the same concept of like you just meet people like from different industries, different walks of life, and it just helps you get better at your job or establish a business that you want to down the line, become an entrepreneur, all of those things just really help. Um, so I'm with you. Like, that's just open the networking to all industries.

SPEAKER_01: 14:39

So talk to me about mentors. You know, it's it's not been you you've mentioned zigzagging through your career or zigzagging through your tennis networking, but I'm sure through your career is it's probably not a stretch to say. Have you found any value in in mentorship, both being a mentor and of course calling upon people as your mentor?

SPEAKER_02: 15:00

I don't think you can get anywhere in your career if you don't have the right people around you. And a lot of times they are experienced leaders. Um, because you know, your your colleagues are you're all fighting the same battle, you're dealing with the same crap. Um, but a lot of your leadership team or mentors at the time, well, they all start as your colleagues, right? And then eventually you pivot or you put them on a pedestal of like, okay, this person is my mentor, this person is who I look up to, and this is how I want to be. Uh, so I 100% have had that. I mean, I'm sitting here because of them to an extent. I'm I don't mean that in like a very poetic way or anything, but it's just truth. It's also people don't realize when they start off in an industry, your career is just not linear. People think, you know, you start well, speaking specifically about like our industry, you start as an intern, then you get like an account exec, then manager, senior manager, director, senior director, VP, CEO, so on and so forth. It really is not linear. Your career is, there have been times in my life where I've felt sky's the limit. I'm like 100% like reaching this level in like the next two years. In one year, something changes, you're like, oh shit, everything's reset. Now I'm back to ground zero. And that's okay, because that's just how career is. You can't, nobody, I think, or if you speak to like the global CEOs of the biggest companies in the world, they'll never tell you that this was a very easy and a linear ride. So your career is zigzags and it goes up and down. You have phases where you feel sapped, you have phases where you feel you have no growth. So it's how you deal with that. And the way you deal with that, well, a lot of it is inwards, but I think a good majority of it is having the right leaders and mentors around you. Um, can I name drop? I can name drop, right? So Joyce Backeray, I mean, Joyce doesn't even know I'm talking about her. I mean, both both of them wouldn't know I'm going to speak about them, right? Uh, because it's just who they are. That that's those are the kind of people they are. Um, Joyce at the time used to be, I don't know if you know Joyce, she has. Um, so Joyce works at Loopme. Um, I think she's still at Loopme. You might know Helen. Helen uh is at Loopme. So Joyce um at the time used to lead the supply team um when I started at uh AOL as an intern. It's it's actually a slight little anecdote to that AOL internship. I was two days away from booking my flight to India and leaving for good. I had no job. I had no, I was getting really frustrated with like the London job market. Um, I was only getting like I used to get really far in interviews as an intern, right? It was a thousand pounds a month at the time, the internship salary. And then they'd be like, oh, but the other person had more experience than you did. So we had to give the job to them. I'm like, yeah, but it's an internship, isn't the whole point of having no experience so that I can get experience? So I had a lot of these, and I'm sure like everybody who's in the industry has gone through these cycles. So I was two days away. I remember like I had moved, I was sitting on the floor, and I was frustrated. I was like, okay, I spoke to my parents, I'm like, I'm coming back, I'm looking at flights and just not working out. It felt awful. Like I'm I'm a very I hate losing and failure. So for me, that was the lowest point. It still is, maybe, where I felt like I failed at something. I hate, I have, I like to think I have not quit. So for me, that was completely opposite of what was happening to my life at the time. So um I applied for this internship, I get the I get the interview. Joyce was on one of the panels. Fast forward, I mean, I got the internship, I started working at AOL. Um, and for people who don't know how immigration works here, I was in a visa. So after university, the government at the time gave you a two-year post-study work visa. Essentially, you have two years to find a sponsored job. So that means all your startups and your mid-to-small companies are out because they don't have the money to like sponsor. And back then, the good old days, we were in the European Union. So the as an employer, you have to basically advertise the job on the open market and prove to the British government that you can't find this talent in Europe. That's why you're hiring this person from a non-European country and you need to like sponsor them and so on and so forth. So I basically have two years to prove myself that okay, you know, like those two years I could work freely uh just for one employer, and then after those two years, it's the employer's decision to make me permanent or not, and then move me to another tier of visa where I have to spend five years on that visa and then proceed to having like indefinite leave to remain in citizenship. Yeah, if uh anybody who a lot of Brits don't even know this exists, by the way. They don't know how this works, they don't know. I mean, it's because you don't have to go through it. So feel super privileged if you're British. Um, that coming into This country is not easy. So Joyce was at the time my leader, and she herself was super young, right? Like she was incredibly maybe one of the smartest women I know in the industry. Very smart. She never really made me feel like an intern, which I think is an incredible quality to have in a person. She always gave me, you know, like the task, and then she would help me with it. But then complete ownership was mine. She was like, if you need me, I'll come and help you. But there was no hand holding. She's like, I don't care if you make mistakes, if you make do errors. As long as you were learning, I'm happy. And you know, and um, she used to always put this line: she's like, Ali, we are not saving lives. So, you know, if something breaks, it's fine. We'll find a way to fix it. So, and Joyce is maybe the reason why I'm in the country. Because at the time my internship got done, and um we so AOL obviously she had to prove to AOL that this person now needs to be moved to another visa and is worthy of becoming permanent. And she fought tooth and nail for me. Also, I mean, humble brag. I was pretty good. Um, but she really, really fought for me. Um, she created a case. She, I mean, she didn't have to, you know, she's friends, she's like, she doesn't know this world. Um she really fought for me. She made sure that I had all the support I needed at the time because it was a really, I was very vulnerable back then. It was a very strange time for me. Because, you know, if you think of it as an immigrant, it's like four years of my life in. I'm like, okay, this can get uprooted tomorrow because I got a letter from Home Office, you know. Like, and at that point, I was like, I'm I felt very British. That's the other thing. I felt super British when I started living in London. I always joke to people, like, it takes you five years to become a true Londoner. Um, and I think I had that feeling after three years. So I was very like, oh, London is my city, London's my life. And to have like a piece of paper over your head which can completely uproot all of that was a very strange time. And I was doing pretty well in my career, you know, like my I've become permanent at AOL, even though a lot of people were like, AOL is still around, but we were doing really well as a company. So Joyce came through for me until date. Like, I every time since now she's in New York, she hasn't lead she's leading all of like loop me supply side, she's doing incredibly well for herself. Um, I try and make it a point to meet her, and it's it's still the same person, you know. Like she's still my biggest cheerleader. Like, I remember when I used to get promoted and I got like a job at Roku. Like, even I've not spoken to her for like months, she would be like, Oh, Ali, I saw this, like, you're doing so well, I'm so proud. She even at an intern level at the time, she was like, There's no limit. I'll I'll give you a very small quick story. For people who work in the industry, know Mashable. Mashable at the time was huge. No one cares about Mashable now. But back then, Mashable's editorial voice was massive. This is back in the day where Huffington Post used to be a great editorial voice too, right? And we were running this campaign, and we had to reach out to Mashable to basically do some sort of a review for this campaign that we were running. So, like a feature article, right? And at the time, I think, I mean, I might get her last name wrong, but I think it's Tamara Goldberg, but she was the editor-in-chief at Mashable. And Tamara is a great, we used to be a great voice. I think she's gone a bit off the radar. I think she's doing her own thing now. But she used to be a great voice back then, and everyone used to have huge respect for Tamara. And Joyce was like, um, so I went to Joyce, I'm like, Joyce, I'm doing the job, like I have to do this task. Nobody from Mashable, like, you know, it's like editor at Mashable.com. Like, nobody's replying to me. Like, I don't know how to reach out. She's like, Oh, um, look for Tamara on LinkedIn. And I'm like, sorry, what? She's like, Yeah, look for Tamara, like try and connect with her there. Um, see if you can get her email and just drop her an email. I'm like, Joyce, I'm I'm like an I'm an intern with like a thousand-pound salary, like I've been in the industry for a year. I can't email Tamara. She's like, no, just go for it. Like it happened. Just send her an email. So, long story short, I sent her an email. Tamara got back to me. I had like a proper back and forth. Joyce didn't even ask me to CC her, which is it's a very small thing, but it was it was so at the time for me, it was so liberating. Because I also didn't have that fear of, you know, like I'm like, oh, sure, like I'll speak to Samara. And that little thing that happened really changed my trajectory. It gave me so much confidence. Um, it made me like, okay, well, I can email a CEO, you know, I can like walk into any room. And at the time I used to walk into a room and be the youngest person, but that that little episode that happened just changed my entire outlook. It gave me so much confidence of you know, just being able to own it, you know. Like at the end of the day, we all we all learning, and no one is bigger than you think they are. So great little example. So a lot of time for Joyce.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

So a couple of things there. So one is I think I actually do know Joyce. If I'm if I'm right, she worked at Undertone before AOL. Correct. Okay, correct. So and uh yeah, okay, right. So I do I do know. Um she's obviously a great person. I could say I knew you when you were at AOL, yeah, and I didn't see you as a as a junior individual. You didn't present yourself as a junior individual. So this is either testament to your yourself, or rather, it is testament to yourself, and also testament to the leadership around you. And it's really important that leadership empowers their team, doesn't matter what their experience is, doesn't matter what their tenure is within the industry, to be able to hold their own and have that confidence. And it is important to build that confidence in your team as well. So I think that's a that's a great takeaway for for people who are listening in. Okay, let's let's um talk a little bit about what you're doing at the moment. So, what what are you doing at Roku? You mentioned Roku a couple of times, and and what challenges are you facing there?

SPEAKER_02: 25:56

Um, so Roku, I work very closely with our content team. So essentially, my job is to negotiate the advertising terms on any partner that comes onto our platform. So, for people who don't know Roku, so Roku is a streaming platform, so similar to like an Amazon FireStick or like an Apple TV. So we, like I said earlier, like we're number one in the US. We have every second household has a Roku. So we are doing incredibly well. Also, it's a company that started purely, we we don't do any formal advertising as such. It grew from word of mouth, which is incredible in itself. So we speak to broadcasters, we spoke we speak to anybody who owns television content um and premium television content, and it essentially started off as a purely ad funded business. So that's how Roku grew. So within the streaming world, you know, there were a lot of subscriptions, and then you have the skies where you're paying like for satellite TV and all of that. The way we got into the market was really through ad funding. So it's basically you can buy Roku steak, not very expensive when you compare it to the competition, and you get incredible content, which is ad funded. So it's a give and take relationship with the consumer. And I think that model works incredibly well. I think it resonates great with the market. Uh, I think anybody who's in the industry knows about Roku. We've been doing really well. Um, so my job is essentially to negotiate the advertising terms with these partners and also then live through that life cycle with them. So I also look after the partners after that. Uh, we have a technical team which will talk tech um technical side to them. I mean, you know me, I've always been on the business side. So I look after the data relationship, but then I'm also like figuring out what the new opportunities are. And also a lot of our focus these days is um UK and Europe. So we are trying to um, you know, it's it's not an easy market, um, especially if you look at the European um landscape and also the UK landscape. Like you've got big players in Germany, big players in France, big players in the UK. Um, and we all like local stuff. So for an American company to come in and and try and grow that is uh definitely challenging. Um, but that's my focus. So I'm trying to figure options and working with our wider teams, and they're much smarter minds at Roku than me, who are also trying to work on this and and figure out how what opportunities we can capture. And that's what makes my job exciting. It's uh obviously the day-to-day is good, but the challenge makes it a lot more uh intriguing because then you can you can you can try and work different ways and try and solve different problems and then hit a roadblock and then start over. So it can be frustrating sometimes, but also it's very rewarding when you get it right.

SPEAKER_01: 28:45

Again, lots that I want to talk about there because of course I've got a similar role at Sabio. I fully feel the size of that opportunity when it comes down to talking about uh European penetration, especially from a US headquartered or or a business that is so established in the US and trying to come to the UK. I I think it's got to be particularly difficult for you because the size of the business is so immense. So the benchmarks outside of the US, how how do you not automatically have millions of dollars coming through every single month from Germany? What are you talking about? You know, that that's where we're you know, but Germany is uh it's a particular ecosystem and they want to work within their own cultural hub cultural hubs, content hubs, and then there are people there that have been established that have been doing this for decades uh in terms of broadcast and television and content creation. So yeah, there's certainly an opportunity, but I I feel like the opportunity there is through exactly you know, to your point and to your role, partnerships over and beyond ownership.

SPEAKER_02: 29:54

100%. It's it also it doesn't help that we've gone back into the Wall Garden world.

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 30:01

Um I I I think back then, you know, like maybe like mid-2000s, and everyone was like, oh, it's the open internet. And I was a huge supporter of the open internet. Um, but unfortunately, like in every other industry, like you look at mobiles, right? Like there was Nokia, there was um like 10 different operating systems. There's BlackBerry, Nokia, Apple, Google, then everything started off like, oh, do you have the Nokia OS? And Microsoft tried to do an OS for mobiles. Everything, like once the market mature, you just have iOS and Android. Everything else is gone. So it's similar to what's happening in our industry where there's so many tech vendors, so many tech players, so many content providers, so many platforms, so many streaming services. At the end of the day, unfortunately, it just I mean, welcome to capitalism, right? Like the one with the biggest, the biggest check is the one who wins out. Um, so it's usually the first two or three layers.

SPEAKER_01: 31:02

I was worried about how you're gonna finish that sentence, honestly. You made it this far into the conversation. I was really worried about what you're gonna say there. So just to wrap things up, I've got two questions for you. So, first question is what advice would you offer to someone entering the industry or the world of work today?

SPEAKER_02: 31:18

Surround yourself with the right people. Sometimes you can't because you know you don't choose the people you work with, but even in that group, you will find the right people and have a great support system on a personal level. Um, I mean, obviously, I know this is, you know, we're talking about leadership and colour and it's very work-focused, but I've been incredibly privileged to have really good friends around me. I think that makes a huge difference. Like, if your friends are growing with you, um, they're focused on their careers, they are the ones who are also like, okay, you know, what's the next step? They're ambitious. It's it's very important. Like, ambitious people around you is important. And I don't mean that to a toxic level. Uh, don't go chasing just money, but have ambitious people who want to learn, who want to grow with you. And same thing at work, you know, if you're working even with 10 people and you feel that, okay, eight people are not matching my vibe, or they're not the ones that you want to work with, or it's not the job you want to do. Even from them, you can get something because there's a reason why we're there they're in that position. So try and ignore the the personal, the the side of it is like, oh, I'm not vibing with this person, or this person's take on politics doesn't align with me. Like, ignore all of that. From a work perspective, just focus on the skills you can learn from them. Um, try and see things they're good at. Also try and learn from things that they're bad at, because then when you become a leader, you you know the things that you disliked as somebody who was learning from someone else, and then you can just put it on the back burner. So surround yourself with the right people at work and around you. It's important.

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

I think it's it's perfect, as well as it's absolutely spot on. And the closing tradition is you get to name the podcast, so you get to name the episode. I can help you out a little bit. I'll be on, but uh, but you know, usually people do come up with something that's uh that's pretty creative. So there are a couple of things you spoke about, right? I thought I thought as a as a sort of slight uh tennis reference, no spin. Yeah, no spin.

SPEAKER_02: 33:15

Ooh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01: 33:17

Uh, you know, of course the advice that you gave there surrounding yourself with with the right people is is uh is is absolutely spot on as well. And uh the the value of mentorship or I wouldn't be here without my mentor. There's lots to take away from this episode. I've I've really enjoyed the conversation. Now the mic's over to you to name it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:35

I think no spin intended. Let me just add that. You know, I'm gonna do the Facebook thing, but I'll take the dove. So maybe just add it. Yeah, I think no spin intended is a is a good is a good name.

SPEAKER_01: 33:46

Perfect. Love it. That's what we're gonna call it. Ali, I've really enjoyed the conversation. I can't wait to catch up with you again. I don't know if I'm gonna catch you on the court, to be honest with you. It sounds like you're a lot better player than I am. And again, I I I don't really like being the comedy value all the time. But uh but we'll see. I mean, uh we we've got some indoor courts around here, so if you want to pop down, you're more than welcome to.

SPEAKER_02: 34:08

Always happy to share it. And you know, we we always we always have a have a good time, so we can definitely do that.

SPEAKER_01: 34:13

Thank you for your time today. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

SPEAKER_02: 34:16

No, thank you for having me.