Episode 23 - The Name I Grew Into with Darain Faraz

In this powerful episode of Leadership in Colour, Shez Iqbal sits down with Darain – Co-founder of People Like Us, a movement reshaping conversations around diversity, ethnicity pay gaps, and representation across PR, communications, and the wider creative industry.

From waiting tables at 16…
to launching viral club nights…
to becoming a PR leader across Australia and the UK…
to shaping global brand marketing at LinkedIn…
Darren’s journey is anything but ordinary.

🔥 He opens up about:

• Building People Like Us with his brother to challenge the ethnicity pay gap
• What it was like working at MySpace during its explosive peak and seeing Facebook quietly take over
• The reality of walking into rooms where almost no one looked like him
• How gratitude and ambition shaped his early career
• The moment he realized the industry desperately needed diversity — and decided to do something about it

His story is bold, reflective, hilarious in parts, and deeply inspiring throughout.

If you care about leadership, equity, representation, career growth, identity, or breaking barriers, this episode will move you — and stay with you.

🎧 Tap play to hear the raw truth behind People Like Us, the power of representation, and the journey of a leader who refused to stay silent.

Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Really pleased to have with me today Darren or Dorain, depends on how you pronounce the name, who is the co-founder of People Like Us. We were defining what social media was to the media.

SPEAKER_01: 0:12

So Facebook came and basically quietly started pulling people across. People wanted it to use it as a utility. One of the things that kind of kept coming up is, you know, ethnicity pay gap. Like it's it's a big thing. Like it's it's a known, depending on which stat you look at, it's anywhere between like 9 and 15% disparity between people just because of the colour of their skin are being paid less. We've had this discussion about gender. It's unacceptable for gender, and it's unacceptable for people from ethnic backgrounds to be paid less.

SPEAKER_00: 0:52

I started these conversations to discuss leadership, mentorship, growth, and so much more from voices you may not have heard from before. I hope the conversations inspire you, motivate you, and give you something to think about. It's leadership in colour from myself, Jasek Now, supported and powered by me. Welcome to Leadership in Colour. Really pleased to have with me today Darren or Dorain, depends on how you pronounce the name, with me today, who is the co-founder of People Like Us. We met each other through LinkedIn, which of course speaks to the power of LinkedIn, but there was a post in particular referencing your shirt. And I'm really pleased that you put on a beautiful shirt for the conversation today. Thank you so much and welcome to the podcast. How are you? I'm I'm really well. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45

Yeah, that that was a that LinkedIn post actually um performed far far better. It was a throwaway post just about you know working with my brother. Um, and in it, it was his comment that that triggered quite a quite a big discussion um around it, and I think it kind of tapped into a bit of sibling naughtiness, uh, which kind of I think yeah, yeah, kind of elicited lots of reaction. And I got a lot of contacts and a lot of great, you know, um communications with with with people like yourself. So um so yeah, I was wearing a somewhat garish shirt then, and I'm I wouldn't describe this one as garish, this is kind of culturally appropriate for where I am. So I live in Fiji. Uh, so this is what what what is described as a bullet shirt, and I quite like it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:27

I think it's a great shirt. I think yeah, I think it's a fantastic shirt. I don't know what your brother was talking about. I thought the other shirt was really nice too, to be honest with you. So I'll have to get him on later and and and quiz him on on his uh his fashion sense as well. I I just like wearing black t-shirts, you want to say I don't feel like I'm in a position to to knock anybody else's attire. But for me to be just Steve Jobs style and like just keep it simple, keep it the same. I I think it's more that it's just um it's it's more flattering if you're a larger bloke, right? Fabulous one. Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate that. So walk me through um people like us, because you do that, you do that with your brother, right? I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01: 3:07

So we co-founded people like us um six years ago. Um so I should say that my my background is in PR um and marketing and uh and I've worked largely for consumer tech, you know, for the last sort of 20 years or so, um, in various guises. Um so would it be useful to kind of just walk through what led to people? Um the first job I ever had was as a waiter, um, and I absolutely loved it. Like, you know, I love food, um, I love people, um, I like being busy, I'm you know, I'm quite organised. I like the the kind of the buzz that you get from you know having lots of you know plate spinning, sometimes quite literally at the same time. Like there is something quite um you know that that that makes me feel alive about that, and I've worked at quite busy restaurants and you know, and I I kind of I really really enjoyed that. Um and I was doing that from age 16 to like 19, 20, um, like sort of kind of through uni. And then um, and then while I was at uni, I like you know, as all students, you know, I just was like, I need I need a bit more cash, and you know, I need something to kind of um to bolster my student loan. Um, and so there was an LGBT venue um called Queen's Court in Leeds that was closing down for this massive refurbishment, and um the the the the gay community went to this venue in in their troves and it was a it's a fabulous night out. They had a brilliant Monday night, it was called Quids In. So you pay a pound entry and all the drinks were a pound, you know, again, sort of exposed to like university night out, right? Like it's yeah, it was excellent and like great tunes, or or I thought they were great tunes. Um yeah, no, it was it was a terrific night, and um anyway, it was closing for this massive sort of million pound refurb. Um, so you had a lot of people who were like, Well, what are we gonna do on a Monday night? And then me and a couple of mates were like, We we should plug plug that gap. Um, we should do something. And so, and I'll I'll say that this is still probably one of the best ideas I think I've ever had. We launched a club night um for the gay community in Leeds. Um, and the twist was that it was an astrological themed night, and so it was called, wait for it, it was called Gays G A Z D. Uh, and the idea was um when you came in, you got your star sign stuck on you. So you get you come in, I'm a I'm a Libra, what what star sign are you? Shows Leo. Leo, okay. So you'd get a Leo stuck on you on there as as a Libra, and then what we created, because this was like back in 2000, um, a compatibility grid. Like, and it got updated every week depending on the stars and the moons. And the idea was wherever each of these things matched, it was either like a traffic light system, it's like, go for it, give it a go, or don't even go there, like you're you're you're completely incompatible. Um, and and it was as simple as that. And so everyone has a star sign, everyone could get involved. Um, you know, there was something to talk about. You know, if you wanted to chat someone up, it was the easiest way to kind of like approach someone. And so I loved the concept, right? I was just like, this is really cool, we're onto something, but I didn't have any budget for marketing or like I didn't, to be honest, really know what marketing was. Um, but I did know that you know, these are the papers that the community read, these are the radio stations that they listen to, these are the people that I should probably try to influence. So I was picking up the phone um and and speaking to journalists for the first time, um, you know, just sort of like and putting together really crappy press releases. Um what I didn't even know they were press releases, they were like, I don't know what they were, but they were just notes, um, and and just kind of whizzing them out to people and then kind of following them up with phone calls. Turns out I had inadvertently kicked off my PR career um in so doing, and um I ended up like it got a huge amount of coverage, like huge amounts of coverage. It was in you know, the big issue up north, it was in obviously all the LGBT publications, all the magazines that sadly you know kind of disappeared now. Um they they covered it heavily. You know, mainstream media were also kind of picking up on it, and they thought it was kind of anyway. The night was like a like an unbelievable success. And we had like cues around the corner. Um, and yeah, we we we we were like, oh gosh, like this isn't. I mean, when we town we charged two pounds for entry because we were like, you know, you've got nowhere else to go, you're gonna pay that extra quid. Um, and we got them some some decent drinks promos. Um, and it was great, like people loved it. And so yeah, anyway, so that's a uh that that was kind of what what kind of got me into communications. And I was just like, I really enjoyed the buzz of not, you know, I was good at building relationships, I always have been. Um, and to be able to kind of use that and and get you know and get rewarded with with payment was like a bit of an anathema to me. Um and I was like, okay, there's something here. So anyway, that was that was that. Um it ran for a number of months, the other venue reopened and we did we did click shut it down because we were like, actually, we we can't compete with that. It was a nice novelty thing for a bit. Um, and it was around the time I moved to to Australia. I did, you know, I did my gap yeah in uh in in Sydney. Uh well actually not in Sydney, I started in uh is it a gap year if you do it after uni. Anyway, I I did a year in Australia and uh I landed in Cairns and I dropped my way down the coast. And again, funnily enough, as a backpacker, came to the same conclusion that I was uh uh didn't have enough cash. And I was like, there's an idea that I've had. I wonder if I could I could regurgitate this in in Australia, and and Sydney itself also had a big thriving uh gay scene as well. So I was like, Sub it, let's do this. Um and managed to get some great DJs, managed to get this come fairly obscure venue that was on Oxford Street on board. Um and and again, I was like, I can I can pick up the French journalists and ended up on the on the cover of a local magazine, which was quite something, um, and again generated just this huge amount of excitement and interest. Um, and the night again was was it was a great success. So I was like, okay, I started, and the media scene I realized in in Australia and Sydney was actually far, far smaller than in the UK, and actually to build those relationships wasn't quite as a big a task as it might be in the UK for someone starting off in their PR career, and then yeah, stumbled into a job at a boutique little PR agency. Um, loved it. Um, did that for a bit, then then then my visa was kind of up, so I had to go back to the UK and then got another job uh for another boutique agency um in Milton Keynes, um, which was less glamorous than uh Sydney, but the I mean the work was excellent. Like it was they their major client was um uh a company called First Leisure Corporation. Um they owned a series of light clubs up and down the country. People of a certain age will know with who they are, Equinox, the works. There was a whole raft of them they had, but loads of them up and down the country. So from a PR perspective, it was a dream because I was either doing PR for some of these fairly crappy sort of PAs that they had, so it might have been soapstars. So Dot Cotton from East Endus was like DJing at one of the venues, and that was something. Yeah, yeah, Dot Cotton DJing, come on. Yeah, no, well, it was it kind of, I mean, like, yeah, no, it worked. We and it got columnches, and she she did that. But obviously, on the on the flip side of that, you also had um, you know, the darker side of what happens in clubs, and you know, there there were rapes and there were like murders and there were like just awful shit that was going down. And so as a as a young PR person just starting in their career to have that sort of exposure to um communications, um, both like high-level, amusing consumer sun fodder, um, as well as like local news stuff, um, which was big at the time, um, but also then having to kind of manage essentially crisis communications um for for some of these organizations. Obviously, I was lower down the pecking order in terms of like I wasn't I wasn't drafting the releases, but just have exposure to all of that at the time was was really quite um quite something. Um so so yeah, so that that that's kind of like the start of my my PR career. I then decided that I didn't really want to be in the UK anymore and and kind of snapped back to Australia for love. Uh so I ended up back in Oz, which was great. Um, and you know, I had probably the best, one of the best decades of my life. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. Anyway, uh it was a great uh it was a great run. I was there from like 22 to 31, 32, something like that. Um, and it was terrific. And when I was there, um I just happened to be, I was looking for a job. Um, I happened to be in the right place at the right time and met the right person. And uh she is an absolute inspirational leader to me. Her name is Rebecca Horn. She um was sort of cherry-picked herself actually to kind of launch what was the fastest growing website in the world at the time. Um, so I don't know how many of your listeners uh will be familiar with MySpace. Um, but um but yeah, MySpace was launching in Australia. It was one of the first markets they were launching in outside of the US. It was growing exponentially, like it was it was nuts, it was it was sort of out of control. And I was going for this job, she was having coffee with someone that I knew. I chatted to him, she could see that I was going for a job interview, she's like, What do you do? And I was like, I work in PR. She was like, We're looking for a PR manager. Um, and that was that, and that's when you know things really started kind of picking up, and that's when my career really shifted gears, and suddenly, you know, MySpace was fascinating because it ended up doing uh um like it was almost a case book, you know, sorry, a textbook case study of what not to do with a big, uh, big successful business. They did almost everything wrong. Um, you know, that because you know, at the time they, you know, they they didn't have enough pages to sell ads because people that all their ads got just like everything, all their inventory just got sold out, and people just wanted more. There's a young, highly engaged audience that desperately wanted to kind of get a piece of the action. And we had like so many big brands who were falling over themselves, um, just throwing cash at the at the business at the time, and it was quite quite something to behold, like just to be part of that journey was was yeah, not like anything I'd I'd experienced before. Um, and they were like flying me back and forth to headquarters, which happened to be in LA. I was like dealing with like celebrities. There was like my these MySpace secret shows, which are these, you know, these sort of legendary events where like a few hundred or sometimes less than a hundred people could go and see, you know, uh like an unbelievable episode, you know, Florence and the Machine. We did a secret show with the cure at the Sydney Opera House. Um, there were a hundred odd people there.

SPEAKER_00: 14:10

Um, like it it was banana. But 100 people in Sydney Opera House in itself is quite an awe, right? Because it's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 14:19

So it was it was a it was one of the rooms. Um and to be fair on that one, I didn't vote because I was like, I I don't deserve to be one of these hundred people because I couldn't name you a song by the cure. So um so I I I did bow out of that one. But that was a caliber of um you know talent that we had, and that was the kind of like the influence um MySpace had at the time. Behind the scenes, there was another little website bubbling around, um, which you might have heard of. Um so Facebook came and and basically quietly started pulling people across. Um, it had a far cleaner, neater interface. Um, people wanted it to use it as a as a utility, they wanted to be able to kind of communicate to their friends without the the glittery nonsense um that that that kind of littered MySpace. Uh so so I mean MySpace Australia, I will say, did kind of hold its own well beyond MySpace and other markets. Like we were one of the last markets to to kind of close down our offices, but it was four or five years that I was there. And honestly, it was it was some of the most fun I've ever had at work. You know, I was given more responsibility than I probably should have been at that at that age, you know, because again, like I described with the agency in Milton Kings, like I, you know, we were we were defining what social media was to the media, like it was like you know, people kind of were doing like Friends Reunited, Bibo was a thing. Um MySpace really was the one that you know cut through and everyone heard about it. The challenge for us in in Australia was MySpace was owned by News Limited, um, and Fairfax um were the other sort of big publishing house uh in Australia. And so when you were trying to do PR for a company that is owned by one media company and trying to get coverage in the other, it it did create some really interesting sort of challenges. So it was, you know, again a phenomenal opportunity dealing with celebs again, but also the dark side of the web as well. There were a lot of people who were pretending to be people, they weren't pretending to be kids on the site, and that that caused all sorts of issues that had to again be dealt with from a commerce perspective, which was you know really serious stuff. Um, and and again, we were sort of not quite making it up as we went along, but the the the you know, government's policies, the industry itself was kind of just evolving, um, so no one really knew what to do or how to kind of cope with this this sort of thing. And we can we can kind of that there is a an 11-year bit of my career journey which you know which actually did help um define you know what what happened in some respects, um, you know, with with with my career. Um so I did I did the the MySpace gig and then long story short, moved back to the UK. Um, and there was another site that was being around called LinkedIn. Um was growing, I think it had maybe 80 million, maybe a hundred million. It wasn't that many members, right? At the time, I mean it's a huge number of members, but relative to I think it crossed the billion dollar, uh sorry, billion person mark now. Um, so it's kind of you know, it is it's enormous now. But at the time it was kind of it wasn't quite a startup, but but anyway, I I then started working at my LinkedIn uh on in a comms capacity, and then in the last sort of four years that I was there, that kind of shifted to brand marketing. So I left there as the international brand marketing director. So I was overseeing all all the advertising we were doing outside of the US, um, which was you know like just magic. But in the midst of that, um, so me and my brother uh we were at how did it come about? So yeah, me and my brother were at my mum's, she lives in Luton, she still lives in Luton, two of my brothers still live there as well, and and we were both going to work, we just happened to be there that weekend, we weren't living there at the time. Um, and we were getting the train from Luton to King's Cross, and we were just having a chat. My brother, who had also not long before started a career in PR, um, he'd sort of studied English. I mean, he's utterly brilliant at what he does, he's far, far superior. In fact, you should definitely have him on this rather than me. He's he's excellent. Um, and so yeah, he was just chatting, but he he really had this a bee in his bonnet, and he was like, Have you realized that everyone that works in PR is largely a white middle class woman? And I was like, I yeah, I I guess. And and I hadn't I hadn't really thought about it if I was completely honest at the time. I was so I think I was trying very hard to prove myself, uh, and I think I've always tried to kind of prove myself to be the best that I could be, that I hadn't really taken a huge amount of, you know, I hadn't really thought about it, if I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_00: 19:11

Um, but for him, it was Which is weird, I have to admit, like it's surprising that you've sort of been in that career for a while and not really noticed because I I usually take stock when I walk into a room. Maybe that was a testament to how how you how you were welcomed into the industry.

SPEAKER_01: 19:27

I I I honestly, you know, I think for a long time I felt very grateful to be in the room. I very felt very grateful to be at the table. I felt like I was um like woefully underqualified for every job that I got. So I was just I just didn't want to be found out. And so, you know, that that was just my mentality. It was all about self-preservation, really. And I think, you know, I was, you know, and I was working with great people, and and there are a you know a huge number of brilliant people in the industry. But it it wasn't until he sort of said it um that it that it became so painfully obvious that I'd I'd kind of somehow missed this. Um, and he was right, he was absolutely right, and and you know, and you know, when I thought about all the agencies that we were working with at the time, um the agencies that I'd worked with previously, um, you know, and and by the way, nothing against these wonderful, fabulous, terrifically successful, um, and and sort of kind, empathetic women that work in PR. You know, I love, I wouldn't be where I am without these amazing people. But there was there was a disparity there, like a massive um gaping hole in terms of um diversity. I mean, there's no other way to put it. There was just like there was no people that looked like me. I guess I was I'd kind of become the anomaly. I was kind of like in a senior role. Um, and so yeah, I was just like, this is this is slightly nuts. Um, and he said we should do something about it. I was like, all right. Um and then we we kind of brainstormed and we came up with the concept of people like us. And and what we wanted to do was, you know, there were there were definitely a lot of people, and there definitely are still a lot of people doing super important work in this space, and we wanted to kind of supplement that. We wanted to make sure that it wasn't it was additive and that we weren't just doing the same thing that that some of these other brilliant organizations were doing, and so we were like, you know, I'm I'm sick of hearing about, you know, um, you know, why isn't the industry more diverse? Why isn't the workforce more more diverse? Um, you know, what what we need to do because the moment I started sort of digging into it, it became, like I said, painfully obvious that it that this lived reality um that I'd had was actually far removed from that what was actually going on. Um and then the moment you start scratching beneath the surface, you know, it all comes sort of pouring out and in painful detail. Um and so we were like, we need to do something that that feels a little bit different. And so what we landed on were um these quarterly events um, sort of where we invite 10 speakers and we opened it up on LinkedIn. Anyone that's interested, you know, put your hand up. You had to be uh an ethnic minority in order to be selected. That was our only sort of criteria, someone who works, and this was specifically for the Marcoms creative journalism media industries. Um, and the idea was each of our speakers gets three minutes to speak about a campaign that they're proud of, a story they want to tell, um, a business that they might have started, but something um that that is of interest to other people that is loosely hinged around the industry. And we had everything ready, we've got these terrific set of speakers. Um, and then the idea was that we would invite agency leaders, hiring managers, media, and you know, all these sort of amazing contacts that I'd I'd made through the years. My brother, also a shameless networker, had also kind of made through the years, and then we kind of just went, went, went after everyone. We were like, we're doing this thing, you gotta join us for this thing. And everyone was super excited. So we were just about to go live. We we partnered with Samsung for our first event, we're like, this is awesome in their gorgeous flagship store in King's Cross. We're like, this is gonna be this is gonna be great, and then uh then COVID happened, um and like literally the week before we were due to put on our first ever event, and we're like, oh god, like this is this is this is like because we put a lot of time and effort into it was the first one. Um so like the rest of the world, we adjusted and shifted it to digital, and we were like, let's just see, we got this amazing partner on board who basically did all the tech for us, and obviously we had Samsung on board already, so that was helpful. Um, and so we shifted gears, and we had hundreds of people that joined us for that first um sort of digital people like us experience, and it was really good, like it worked, and we were we were stunned um at how much interest there was in it and the conversation that was kind of kind of happening at the time. We were just like, But we're this we're definitely onto something. If this works digitally, it will absolutely work live. Um, and then we we proceeded to do more of them um so digitally over COVID, and then eventually uh when the world reopened, we went back to our friends at Samsung and said, You remember that? Remember that little um event that you were gonna put on for us? Would you mind if we kind of you know put that on now? And they they were brilliant, and they very kindly um let us have our first IRL uh um people like us event, and you know, the digital one was brilliant just because you know you could see the reaction, you could kind of hear the conversation, but there is just um Shaz, you haven't been to one, but we will get you to People Like Us. In fact, there's one happening, um, there's always one happening every quarter. So we would love to get you get you to our next one. Um because there's something in the room that is just kind of palpable. There there's this energy that is palpable, there is just so much camaraderie, um, and there's huge amounts of nerves. So everyone who's speaking up on the stage, you've got like anywhere up to 200, 250 people in that room, like um who've been invited. Uh, and then you're up on stage and you're doing these sort of mini TED talks, um, and and that's you putting yourself out there. Um and the idea was that we want to celebrate the industry. It's just like we want to show everyone in that room what they're missing out on. Um, you know, we want to show people um, you know, what people like us are made of, and that was that's always been the premise of it. It's like we don't need to tell you that you need to hire more people, we're gonna show you everything that you're you know that you're not seeing at the moment that you're not and it worked. Um, and you know, I'd say 50% of the room is, I think, minority, um, um, of some description, and then the other 50% are our white allies who are like unbelievably supportive and incredibly important, kind of to driving these shifts. Um, people have been hired, people have got a new business, like you know, we've we've I and everything in in between um has happened off the back of those events, and then you th the 10 speakers always end up you know becoming quite tight as well, which is really nice. So that expands their networks and then they're meeting more people, and there's something about just bringing people together in that way, um, that that has kind of just worked, the model worked, and and so and we've been doing that now for six years, so it was just events, and then as I said, I started sort of like digging as we start digging a bit around one of the things that kind of kept coming up is you know, ethnicity pay gap. Like it's it's a big thing, like they it's it's a known, depending on which stat you look at, it's anywhere between like nine and fifteen percent disparity between people just because of the colour of their skin are being paid less. We've had this discussion about gender, it's unacceptable for gender and it's unacceptable for uh people uh from ethnic backgrounds to be paid paid less. I feel like things have uh kind of shifted from like we need to do something about getting more diversity in workplaces in our industry, um, to actually know we we you know our ambitions are are bigger than that, and and the ambitions should be bigger than that because you know we um owe it to the broader community um to kind of help people out. We I I feel quite fortunate and I feel quite grateful, I feel quite lucky that I was able to kind of land the roles that I did. Um, but not everyone's that fortunate. So I think if we can collectively come come together and and and drive something that will that will outlast all of us, um that would be that would be a really lovely legacy to be able to leave.

SPEAKER_00: 27:25

There's a lot to unpack then, and the reason why I say that is because you know, uh just running up to the pandemic, I felt like there was a slight shift to to some conversations around diversity. Maybe not so many, but some conversations about diversity. Uh it was still getting shut down in some rooms, but it it was it there was definitely more airtime in some others, or more than the normal. But um but what what I did around that period is I I joined a number of different networking groups. Of course, you know, we we had the pandemic and the rest of it, so you were limited in terms of what it is that you could do. And most of the conversations that I had were people sharing stories about how they had been impacted through some sort of you know uh racial abuse or any any anything, anything sort of like racially driven in in the workplace um or even in their personal life. And and I I totally get it, and and I'm I'm not saying that that that isn't important, that that is of course important. You should definitely get that off your chest, and and sharing those stories is uh it's part of the reason why I set up the podcast. Well, the thing that really drives me is exactly what you're doing, what your brother's doing, and that that is showcasing the fact that yes, these might be people of colour, but there's more to them than that. And maybe you should just give them a chance and listen to what they're working on, listen and and and hear out the fact that they are super smart people and they know what they're doing, and they're working on some great stuff. And if you just give them a minute, you might decide to work with them a little bit more, or you might learn something, and and then the the evolution of that to uh actually making a difference because I've always got this thought on when people but when you want to say something, it's the why why am I talking, right? So if if I'm if I'm talking just for the just because I want to say something, just because I I want people to hear my voice, great, that's fine. I appreciate that and know that, just be very good at it. But really, there's got to be something that the listener can take away from it, some sort of action item, some sort of message that you're you're pushing forward. And with your work on trying to reduce that pay gap or remove that pay gap between you know, let's be transparent to white people and and non white people, you can say minorities or global majorities, it's it's a it's a great action, right? It's a great step. Yeah, and I think you know through my program, this this is you know like a super important thing.

SPEAKER_01: 30:01

For whatever campaigns I've worked on in my sort of two plus decades in the industry, like you know, it there has to be a so what, there has to be some minimum there, otherwise it's just noise and it's just um it's just awareness, which is fine if you're a big brand and you want to shift people's perceptions around blah, you know, but you know, you need to be able to, you know, it has to be demonstrable and it has to be meaningful. Um, and and that was you know, that's essentially what what's been our driving force for this is like yes, it's this this is important. And we have, you know, I think it's important to say that a lot of the people that have been speaking at our events, a lot of the people who've attended our events have ended up getting jobs. We help a lot of people with their C V, we've done this for for years, um, help them with their CVs, help them with their LinkedIn profile, make introductions. You know, we we do that, we've done all of that uh out of you know the sheer love of it. Like it's it's operates the not-for-profit. And I should, you know, like that's you know, that's we've we've begged, stealed, and um stolen and borrowed, um, and dug into our own bank accounts and our own pockets to kind of fund people like us just because you know we believe in it. We've also had a huge amount of generosity. So our you know, our campaigns are run by brilliant um, you know, this awesome creative agency called Worth Your Wall, who are based in Copenhagen, they're doing some phenomenal stuff. But they've they've bought into what we're doing, um, and they get what we're doing, and they have produced, I think, some of the best work in the industry with complete like almost completely pro bono. Um, and you know, and then there are producers that want to work with us because they they again they they they buy into the cause. Um, so yeah, hugely proud, absolutely, um, hugely proud of my brother, who I you know absolutely have to say is the driving force behind this. Um, you know, he he you know, he he is a force to be reckoned with. Um, and you know, he you know, he it was his his idea. Um, and you know, he leads the charge. I I live in Fiji at the moment um and have done for the last couple of years. You know, our family got an amazing opportunity. Um, I've got three kids to be in this gorgeous part of the world for a short space of time. And so that's meant a lot of the onuses on him in terms of the day-to-day, in terms of like, you know, the meeting with potential partners, in terms of like the events and what have you. I do as much as I can and I work late into the night, but you know, I think I'm I'm hugely proud of my brother and what he's achieved um through this. You know, like it wouldn't be where it is without his dedication. You know, it is a pretty dark and depressing era that we find ourselves in. Um and all those all those wonderful platitudes and all those wonderful corporate corporate support that we got um, you know, during COVID, you know, during Black Lives Matter, after that horrendous murder of George Floyd, as you said, you know, I wouldn't say it's completely dissipated, but the conversation's shifted. And and and like we we have to acknowledge that and we need to kind of work within this new sort of era where it's not where it is okay to say the things that it wasn't okay to say it not that long ago. People are you know empowered, they're emboldened um to say, you know, you know, some really god-awful things, and we need to, you know, that's our our live reality. So we need to adjust as as an organization. I think everyone needs to adjust how they combat that sort of mindset which has kind of seeped in. It's been sort of like it's been there, it's always been there, but then there was this sort of shift that came in where I think people were cautiously, you know, sighing with relief that they you know actually things are beginning to change.

SPEAKER_00: 33:36

Let's move on to the next question. Um, yeah. I'm getting to get your thoughts away. You you praised your um brother uh you know hugely for the the idea behind people like us and of course the drive behind people like us as well. But as a duo, there is something there which is coming up with an idea and doing something about it. I mean, I I come up with a lot of ideas, I mean I've done a lot about it all, right? And there are there are loads. I mean, I I don't know if you you have the same circles that I do, but you know, we'll we'll we'll sit around uh a cup of tea or what or whatever, and uh people say, Oh, you know what? This would be fantastic, and that this will be fantastic might be done by someone else six months later, like, oh you know, I came up with the idea. Yeah, but there is a difference. You came up with the idea, that person executes it. There is something in there about your execution. What what advice would you give to someone who has an idea and is willing to execute against it? I think test it.

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

Um, test it, try it, sound it out. Uh, you know, you know, we we we built our own sort of platform um because we didn't feel like there was one that that kind of really reflected what we felt the need was. Um, you know, I mean, and we did it like with nothing, um, you know, with a huge amount of enthusiasm, with a large number of contacts in the industry, yes, um, but like with no actual cold hard cash. So I think if you can come up with a concept and you're excited about it and you feel like it actually this this actually does serve a need, then then go for it. Like, you know, you you might, you know, it might not work, but it might. Um, and you're not gonna know um until you you you try. Um, and and I know that sounds really cliched, but it's it's cliche because it's true.

SPEAKER_00: 35:27

Um so I I think the advice is is great in terms of basically just test it out, right? So that that's the and if there is a um an easy way to to test something out, uh, you know, at a low budget, then then why not? The closing tradition on this podcast is you name the episode. So tell me, what do you what would you like to call this episode? And and just for the the the audience's uh insight, you did sort of say, I think I might have a name, and I said, Well, um, I don't know if you're if you're gonna go with that one or not. Um by the way, even if you came to the table with Boatie McBoatface, I'll use it. So you you just you go with whatever works for you.

SPEAKER_01: 36:07

Yeah, so you you did yeah, preempt that I would need to do this, and so I had been thinking about it. Um I think I think I'll stick to what I thought, which was um the name I grew into, um, because I think it does kind of like define like define my journey. I think the name piece has been quite important. It kind of has been milestones in my in my professional and personal life, um, and and all of the the richness that kind of surrounds it in terms of why you need to adjust your name, you know, the the kind of the diversity piece, the inclusion piece, the belonging piece. I feel like it kind of does put a neat wrapper around some of the some of the things we've talked about today, even though it is about me, but don't kind of I guess it is uh but yeah, the name I grew into, I think is what I'd probably call it.

SPEAKER_00: 36:58

Brilliant. Well, uh Darren, Darain, Daz, Darren, um great shirt, man. Uh thank you so much for for being a fantastic guest on this episode. I'm sure the audience are gonna take a lot away from this, and I'm looking forward to uh meeting you in person and of course attending one of your events. We'd love to have you there. Thank you so much, Hez.