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Leadership in Colour from Shez Iqbal, Powered by Media For All [MEFA]
Leadership in Colour showcases outstanding leaders of colour sharing their personal journeys, offering valuable insights and advice, and highlights their current projects. Join us to hear from these inspiring leaders and expand your perspective on leadership.
Leadership in Colour from Shez Iqbal, Powered by Media For All [MEFA]
Episode 20 - Crap At Thinking On The Spot with Lisa GoodChild
In this episode of Leadership in Colour, we sit down with Lisa Goodchild — digital entrepreneur, founder of DigiLearning, and lifelong disruptor with a story that’s as raw as it is inspiring. From a turbulent childhood in South East London to building a career at the forefront of digital media and social impact, Lisa shares how resilience, community, and a love for technology shaped her journey.
She opens up about navigating adversity, the role of diversity in her upbringing, and why creating opportunities for young people through DigiLearning is her life’s mission. We also explore her experiences as a woman in tech, her multicultural family heritage, and the power of mentorship and community in breaking down barriers.
Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, a leader, or simply someone seeking inspiration, this conversation is packed with lessons on bravery, belonging, and building pathways for the next generation.
Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.
Welcome to Leadership in Colour. Today, my guest is Lisa Goodchild. Fantastic name in itself. So let's just go straight into that one. Lisa, welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and talk us through your name?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, my name is interesting. And obviously, you can understand that throughout my life, people have asked me, was I a good child? At school, am I a good child? No, I wasn't. I am a bad child for life, but bad child in a good way. Yeah, I am a little bit of a disrupt About me, so I am from South East London. South East London, I think, is at the core of my heart and everything I do. I was lucky enough to grow up in a very diverse community. It's called SE20, Penge, which actually is where they apparently send all the poor people from Bromley, which is interesting. But it was a wicked community to grow up in because there was a lot of different types of people from different backgrounds, different socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. My household was crazy. Childhood was a really interesting place. My mum has mental health issues that we've, you know, so I ended up having to be the mum of the family. But also, you know, we were exposed to some pretty bad stuff. So really, really crazy, awful things when I think of how beautiful the life my daughters have had and have had. So I must say, I am a mum of two beautiful, amazing, gorgeous daughters, 119. who works for EY and is on a degree apprenticeship which I'm very proud of her and Sophia I'm extremely proud of her as well she is 10 so yeah watching their background and when I look at my 10 year old and I just think yeah she's coming up to her 11th birthday and I think I keep on thinking about my 11th birthday and I think it's because it was an actual it was an awful day really and I suppose that's why I sway away from birthdays my birthday's in January anyway so everyone's poor you know everyone's bruck they've got no money so but my mum on that day I attempted to make myself spare ribs and then she beat me up in front of my friends because I didn't cook them properly that was just normal life when I was a kid you know waking up to my mum she might have I was woken up to helping her because she was trying to kill herself or her getting me selling drugs at 13 as well and literally actually weighing meeting people taking money you know like there was it was deep what we went through but I was so lucky that when I was around 19 I always loved technology so my uncle gave us like the robot arm we had people around us as well we had diversity of people so we were lucky I think as well so my uncle gave me an arm and I used to love it like this robotic arm and then I remember going to the Victoria and Albert Museum and it was all about Japan and the technology and I just I really loved it I always I have my brother as well so there was me and my brother we're the same age for 10 days I think that influenced me and because we had nothing there were no dolls there were no you know I didn't have that sort of life I was out I was climbing walls and I yeah I just loved technology and then I was lucky to have someone in my life that encouraged me to do a go to university and I spotted a degree in digital media and that was 20 odd years ago at Greenwich and it was life-changing it taught me so much and gave me gave me so much as well in terms of confidence I got the in the classroom I there was a mixture of people from private schools, normal, you know, comprehensives, different backgrounds. And there was only about four girls in the class because it was a computer science school. But I got the best in the class for the first piece of coursework. And I think that, that really, really helped me go, do you know what? I'm all right. So I got like 96% or something and I thought I can do this. And then I sat at the front of class every single day. And actually about four months ago, I did a talk to my old university and my lecturer was there Tony Mann who's amazing who had to fight for me to get in and he was like Lisa I fought for you and you sat at the front of the class every single day and I came out with the first and actually Pritesh he runs Accenture Song I think he's in the Middle East now actually but he was there and he was like you know the journey I don't give myself the credit that I deserve as well for the journey that I went through just to get to university because where I came from you didn't go to university it was just not on the agenda it was not a thing you know schools I'm afraid have a particular agenda for young people like me when I was young you know I went to school with Rachel Reeves that was hilarious so I went to school with Rachel Reeves she was in my year you know her dad lives down the road from where I live now and it's really interesting they had her on a pedestal to go to you know Russell Brick University I think she went Cambridge or at Oxford. Me, I was like, you know, didn't really have much for me in terms of support. And my work experience was at a nursery. And I always say, you know, I do love my children, but at that age, that nursery age, there's no way I was going to go into that as a career. So putting me as a nursery for work experience was just not the one. So, yeah, I think then I ended up creating Digi Learning through going for an amazing opportunity as well. I've had my own businesses. I've got investment. I took an idea to my old boss and he invested a quarter of a million and I then walked away and I created DigiWoo, which is my social media consultancy that I have. So I've worked with some of the biggest brands in the world and I've had it for 15 years. So I've had the luxury of really, really being there at the groundbreaking fabulousness of social media when it was just so exciting to get a tweet live. A brand, you know, you'd work ages to just get some tweets out there so yeah I've had an amazing career and then I did the Marketing Academy and that was brilliant that gave me such an insight again in terms of leadership community the people within the Marketing Academy there's some just amazing people but again a leveler made me realise that I can be who I want to be and my background does not define that and loving that journey and meeting some just brilliant people, Sherrilyn Shackleton's lady that founded it. And she's just most amazing person. I'm also lucky enough to be a trustee on the charity there. It was there that I decided that I wanted to help young people that came from my sort of background that had the struggles that young people around me had in particular young people that maybe didn't have a mum or dad, you know, in their life and ended up in prison. At 14. I mean, that is the biggest travesty for me in society. How are we allowing this to happen? So there's a little bit about me.
SPEAKER_00:So Lisa, firstly, I will say as introductions go, that was the most introduction I've ever heard. And it was fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Did you say you went to Greenwich Uni?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I went. I managed to blag my way into Greenwich University. I only had one GCSE, so didn't really do, school didn't really, you know, suit me.
SPEAKER_00:Do you go to school in and around Penn? I
SPEAKER_01:went to school. So Cater Park, which is now Romley Harris, which Rachel Reeves, Ellie Reeves went to as well, her sister.
SPEAKER_00:Very cool. And why computer science?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I loved it. And also I just knew that there was something in the internet. There was something exciting about it. I have no idea what was drawing me towards it, but I knew I had to do that degree.
SPEAKER_00:It's quite a brave one, right? Because if I walked into a room, 90% or 95% women, I think I would feel... a little bit uncomfortable in the classroom, right? Like I'd feel out of place, you know, all the obvious jokes aside, I'd feel a little bit out of place. So what made you stick to it? Because that's quite a brave move, right?
SPEAKER_01:I don't think I've ever really felt out of place around men, I suppose. I was very lucky that when I was growing up as a young person, there was a, my mum had many male friends and lots of them, I suppose, could see our situation and maybe cared. And then I had my brother. So I was always with my brother and his mates. So yeah, didn't really get intimidated by it. And actually I'd already had my boyfriend for about, gosh, four years. I've been going out with my boyfriend since I was like 13. So I was very, you know, strong minded, didn't like, I remember one young man thinking he had a chance and I was like, mate, you got no chance. And he was like, okay. And then we became really good friends.
SPEAKER_00:You referenced that you mentioned the fact that there was a hardly any women on this course so do you reference it not because you felt out of place but because you thought more women should have done it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I think more women should have done it in terms of yeah what it's given me gosh it was amazing and the few of us that were on the course and like you say it was brave to do but the community that we had around us the you know young men older men as well because most of the teachers were male when I think about it which is normally not the case but it's it's Czech I suppose yeah it was an amazing community that really really looked after us and we all looked after each other so I was quite lucky as well we had moved into the beautiful Christopher Wren Greenwich campus so you know I was in a different world coming from a council estate and then walking through these just stunning buildings just lapping it all up and like breathing in the breeze of the Thames
SPEAKER_00:you come out of university you've got your degree oh
SPEAKER_01:it's dot com crash dot com crash But
SPEAKER_00:the dot-com crash, right? So everyone that had their free-serve stocks was
SPEAKER_01:crying. Everyone had their boo.com software that they had millions on. And, yeah, it was just flat. But what was interesting was I started working with a lot of– I started working with some footballers. So Kevin Campbell, he was brilliant. He's passed away now, bless him. And, you know, there's a few people. Gary, who has also passed away, who was his best friend, they're from Brixton. So, you know, grew up from the– heart of Brixton and both of them were very passionate about music so they got me to work on their music label and I worked on a few other brands music labels so in the UK garage space Kevin Campbell so was a hip-hop label yeah so really exciting times and building websites for them but also building websites for estate agents because they were the ones that actually had some money and also had realized what they could be used for I suppose they had their purpose, didn't they then? So yeah, those were the industries that were sort of coming up within the tech space. And then I started working for a guy called Dan Wagner and he bought the Boo.com software. So we were taking, it was, nobody was online in terms of e-commerce. We were getting brands like Ted Baker, Mothercare, Panasonic, and again, trying to sell it in, being like, this is really important. You need to be online. Everyone's going to be online buy in and they were like no they won't be able to touch it and smell it no one's going to be online and everyone went online so Dan was he I mean he's absolute bloody genius Dan Wagner he's just got massive investment he's got a AI platform around e-commerce that they've launched and obviously he's had his ups and downs as well and I was on a journey with him I had my first daughter and then I took an idea for him which was the shopping comparison website and he invested in me and that's that that didn't turn out to go the way I wanted it to but at that time I learned a lot about social media so it was all coming in it was the first you know set of bloggers that weren't allowed to sit on the front row in the catwalk show and everyone was being very snooty and again a new industry but really exciting you know you having to fight I think there's been a consistency throughout my career that I love these new industries that you've got to get hungry for and you've got to get excited about and you've got to really fight for people to listen to you I suppose I'm quite good at that. So I created my social media agency because I walked away from the investment that Dan gave me and my business partner. And I said, I'm going to go and create my own agency. And it was then I actually became very good friends with my bestie, Char Wasmund. She is just brilliant. And she was Dan Wagner's business partner at the time. So she took me under her wing. They were having a bit of a parting at the time. as well and um char had an amazing platform called smarter and it was all about entrepreneurship and it was unbelievable so it was just the exciting time of on the trip you know when it started getting really trendy to be an entrepreneur i remember someone sitting me down at the ivy club as you do and they went lisa you do realize you're an entrepreneur and people were paying for this and i was like what are you talking about you know it was really interesting because as you and i know you know in certain communities in particular underrepresented communities or low socioeconomic communities they are masters at entrepreneurship and hustling and trying to get through the day because they are working on very limited resources and yeah they have to really make it happen so I credit that to my upbringing
SPEAKER_00:So I think the entrepreneurship point that you make is really really true I mean if we go back to that shop in Penn there you've got Mr Patel and his family building something and constantly trying to change things around change the shelves around change the format you know work out how you can get people around this wasn't a massive convenience store right yeah there is an element of entrepreneurship there you know solo trade and then and then he did other stuff too right so but but within those communities it was yeah she's got a corner shop right like and and and you you'd have people who would either you know downplay it fob it off or some people that would look up to it and give it the respect that it deserved. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:all business owners are at the heart and soul. They feed families and, you know, these big businesses feed investors. I think, yeah, what they have to make happen from nothing is phenomenal. Having to put up with us kids as well coming into that shop.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, from what I remember, he was quite a vocal man anyways No, he
SPEAKER_01:had it on lockdown from the beginning. Shops are the heart and soul of the community and I think we really need to cherish that as well. My other half's grandfather, he had a shop in Brixton Hill and everyone knows Mr Holder and he used to look after the community and we had a shop actually connected to our council estate and Jay, his family are from Sri Lanka, they had the shop, they took it on from another family and he was the heart and soul of the community like he would make sure that everyone he would tick everyone he would be proud of everyone when it was my birthday I'd make sure I had the best champagne you know influence my other half he was that sort of cool guy but every he used to make sure that everyone was fed and then Tesco's came down the road and ruined him
SPEAKER_00:so so Tesco's aside the reason why I reference you know that that sort of culture in that community is just because you you also spoke a about your background yeah and um you know we know each other through MIFA
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:it would be interesting to go into a little bit of your background what's your what's your heritage
SPEAKER_01:my heritage so um my grandma one grandma is uh Indian and grew up in India one grandma's Jewish uh Scottish and grew up in Scotland and one is from Maui and then the other one's British so you've got a real mixture of culture. And then my children have got even more culture within them in terms of, you know, different parts of the world. So I think we cover most continents, I believe, because Mia and Sophia have also got South American and Caribbean. So, yeah, we're touching all the points as well. And I think that's why I'm so passionate as well. And actually, you know, when my nan, my great-grand grandmother, all of her children, none of them were put down on paper and I noticed it really broke my heart actually on a blog and it mentioned my great-grandfather because he was a Victorian white man who went to India where apparently no person would go. He wrote about four books on different dialects in India. So when you think, and he got really, I suppose he He had a CBE, he had a special medal and everything, but he never came back to the UK because of the way I think that they would have treated his wife. I don't even think he was allowed to marry her because of the culture at the time. So when you think of that, and none of the eight children, so my nan and that, were listed as the children as well. So that was really, really sad. But I contacted that blog and corrected them. said there are there are children okay you will be corrected but when I think of my great great granddad and then living in Shilong and not not even dare coming back because his family would not be accepted it's really sad and I suppose I take it for granted and count myself very lucky that you know my partner he is British born his mum is Jamaican his dad is Guyanese and Bajan and I am so lucky lucky that we are you know in a good situation in terms of the way we're accepted in our society because it could have been very different like you know my my great my great grandparents they had it a very different situation
SPEAKER_00:but it's an interesting thing that you say there because really under your household you've got you know the the entire contents of uber eats right you've got one of one of every single takeout option i
SPEAKER_01:have i have i have but also so my foster son just to say is Chinese heritage
SPEAKER_00:with this sort of like mixed bag of individuals in the household you must come up against some level of should we say animosity or what have you when you go out as a family do you get any weird looks do you get any weird comments or anything because I imagine I've not seen a family picture but I imagine everyone looks quite different
SPEAKER_01:yeah well I have to say that my nan didn't get to meet my children because I didn't want her to. Not my Indian grandma, my other side, my Scottish nan. Basically, what really is amusing is what she didn't realise is that her mum was Jewish and that her mum then went and married someone from Brazil and someone from Mexico, but she had racist ways about her and I was never going to let my children be exposed to that. So it was very sad that she never got to meet them, but I was never going to get to let her sit there and call anyone foreign or come out with a derogatory term I've been very lucky that my girls I think Mia one time someone used the n-word to her in Spain and that broke my heart it was a kid in the playground and you know I'm so proud of my Mia though because when Black Lives Matter was happening one of the teachers used the n-word in a history lesson and she wrote the teacher a letter and she said it's just not why are you using that word but she was just so eloquent unlike her mum who might have used some four letter words instead but I've been so lucky that I've been very protected his family are phenomenal and I've been obviously I've been with him since I was 13 and I'm a very strong personality as you can tell I think people know that I just won't take any nonsense but also I think I've been in the right environments where I've been completely completely accepted and our family are completely accepted so I surround myself with really good people so I've been lucky.
SPEAKER_00:Did you feel like you were different from everyone else in your school or did you feel like you were the same?
SPEAKER_01:I was so different because we were we were the kids that nobody was allowed to play with we were the you know we were the bottom bottom bottom of there's many forms of council estates there's many levels on the council estate there's people that own their own houses you know they can pretend that they're from a council estate but they own their own house they're not from a council estate there's people that have got family mum and dad there's we were rock you know no dad no mum we had no food we were knocking on doors we were right riffraff we would go from one group to another but it gave me such phenomenal skills in my adulthood but only because I've been able to embrace it lots of people can't do that or you know have a difficulty and I've had good people around me that have brought the best out of me so that's why I I'm so passionate about creating that environment to help young people grow because they need to be nurtured if they can't see what they can be. It's so tough out there for our young people as well.
SPEAKER_00:So talk to me a bit about DigiLearning. So what does DigiLearning do?
SPEAKER_01:So DigiLearning is an incubator for young talent. We help young talent find their superpowers and we help industry find their superheroes. So we have various programmes ranging from our year-long Girl Rise programme where we take girls from around the world because it's a digital platform so we have young people in Barbados, Jamaica, South Africa to Pakistan, to the USA to France to Spain and to the UK so our online version is really powerful because we can have that community element with everyone around the world and we also have our face to face versions we take young people through three fundamental levels, teach them about personal development, so all those things about what's your vision, what's goal, how to deal with harsh situations, body language, all of those things, financial literacy, digital literacy, the things that you don't really get taught in school. Level two is about business, so getting young people to understand business, people like TikTok to Financial Times, to Matter of Form will come in and give us master classes to our young people. And then level three is about helping them create that brand profile that personal brand that they need to create to start growing in the profession that they want to grow in and understanding the roles that exist out there but also how do they get to those roles that pathway plan and surrounding them with mentors and coaches as well so you know all those things that are really important and then we take them on experiences so taking them to Cannes Lions taking them to Miami to Possible which was phenomenal Cannes Lions is off the hook as well and we're really excited to be doing more next year and taking them to events and in rooms where so they start feeling like they belong in a room because myself I was so different where I grew up like we was discussing and I think and actually what was really interesting the only people that took us in the only people were usually the black families that took us in you know they were the ones that looked out for us like Matthew he's like my uncle he used to drive me around and drive me dropped me off and you know his mate had a big sound system in the car park in Streatham I used to go there and listen to some tunes when I was like 11 but I had these amazing families my mate Michael's mum she used to feed us do you know what I mean we knew we could go there for a bowl of cereal but yeah really really cool so yeah young people understanding that they have support so my our young people can contact me anytime they want you know they've got a job application I will sit there and help them through it we've got other volunteers as well some amazing volunteers who support us and we've been working hard for the last five years without hardly any funding we're a charity you can see what funding we do get online it's very very basic and we've made massive opportunities happen and our young people are thriving and we are finally getting some big brands that are taking notice and taking us under their wing which is really powerful because I believe that going forward bringing in a lot of community working with our other charity partners and other not-for-profits etc we can really really create something very powerful
SPEAKER_00:so i think i feel like you're in a position of authority to answer this question right what advice would you give to new people starting off in either the media industry or just in the world of work
SPEAKER_01:yeah in the world of work i would say um research the industry that you're going to go into and find your communities that exist within that space because there are some brilliant communities. As you and I know, you've got MIFA. I've got a phenomenal group called Digital Leading Ladies, which is basically half of MIFA in there as well, all the women. About eight years ago, Julia Linehan, she used to be Smithy, but she got married. She and I were meeting for lunch. A few others joined us. And now there's over 500 women in that group. and they are the most phenomenal women and like me far you can put in a question you can approach people you can ask people but yeah find some mentors as well and it was a couple of years ago Karen Blackett she was giving a round table to our young people and it was that it was having maybe four mentors but some that are not maybe in the industry as well who can also give you an insight but I think approach people even if it's just for a coffee and life it can be really scary I'm scared edge all the time you know I have to get myself right people think oh she's so confident it's a lot of bravado I have to puff my chest I have to get myself going and you know really think and make myself do it sometimes and then other times it's really exciting but I do have to be brave a lot and I would say that be brave take up opportunities as well get inside rooms and speak to as many people as you can there's some amazing there's some monsters out there don't get me wrong But your brilliant, amazing people will help you get through those situations as well. And when there's a bad situation, don't think it's ever that bad. There's always a next day tomorrow and you can restart and learn.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I like a lot of what you're saying there because it's true that the community aspect is really, really helpful for sure. I went at it alone for a long time and it's only when I realised that there is this strength in numbers that I probably got a little bit more acceleration a bit more wind in my sails so yeah i definitely do agree with you there and i think the other thing is the most people in this world have a little bit of an ego right
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_00:and you pinging someone to say hey look i really respect you let me grab a coffee because i just want to pick your brains on something massages my ego in particular and i'm sure others too and and and i i'd like to think that again most people are actually quite nice as well so that they're unlikely to say no if they don't have time they might say can we just make it a call 20 minutes or what have you but usually you'll get something and you'll have some sort of lesson and I also say from every interaction regardless if it's positive or negative there's always something learned right
SPEAKER_01:exactly
SPEAKER_00:so just try it out and I think you're a great example of someone who does just sort of like put herself out there and tries things out and let's be honest I mean it doesn't look like you're really that scared of anything but I
SPEAKER_01:think that's because of my childhood and I've got amazing mentors around me. So, you know, when you've got people like June Sarpong, Kanye King, Char Osmond, Mary King Dawson, Vanessa Vallely, what's interesting and what I've started realising about all of those women is they all grew up on counsellor's days and they all made it happen so against the odds and had to fight so much harder. We know the stats for amazing black women, how much they have to fight harder to get anywhere you know I think it's 1.8% or something in our industry of black people let alone black women having those people around me and I thank I thank the world that my daughters have got that you know because they've got this ridiculous like they're going to think it's you know and that's what you want and just that community they are my community I've got my communities they mean that like you say we can tap in to them if we've got a problem we can say saying to me for I've not got a location for an amazing event I'm supposed to put on and everyone tries to help you that is powerful stuff and like you say I think when you come from struggle having to make it happen you have this independence and sometimes you've got to let go and go it's all right you can ask for help
SPEAKER_00:absolutely great advice all right a couple things I want to do before before we wrap up so one is uh is there anything about digital learning you want to talk about apart from the fact that 2025 is going to be a fantastic year is there anything that's keeping you up at night that you'd like to share with the audience?
SPEAKER_01:We need more opportunities for young people in terms of job roles and work experience. So that's keeping me up at night, because I think for the last few years, there's been a massive reduction in those roles. As we've seen, you know, after COVID, we had the Kickstarter campaign, so that got a real investment in young people, and obviously people getting money to employ young people. So now there's, I think it's coming. So I've been hearing that, you those roles but yeah we really do need industry to start investing in young people and also to remember that you can learn so much from young people they're digital natives and we've got we've all we're all on a learning curve and we're all growth we all need to be growth mindset and the young people bring a lot to the play
SPEAKER_00:yeah couldn't agree with you more um okay and i mean i mean this in the sweetest possible way because i know that you're going to walk away from this recording you think gosh i wish i'd mentioned x but any other because you've done you've done a fair amount of name dropping there because there are lots and lots of fantastic people in your in your world is there anyone else you want to give a quick shout out to
SPEAKER_01:anyone else want to give a quick shout out to oh um my young people my young digi learning ambassadors who this year have been my saviors and have supported uh what we're doing at digi learning and have joined us in can and in miami impossible um yeah they're just shining brightly like the people they are i'm super proud of them and you can and just see the progress they've made through having community, through having support and us all supporting each other because I learn as much from them as they learn from me.
SPEAKER_00:I think you're right. I think that ambassador group is phenomenal and it's great in terms of the work that you're doing with them. And I'm totally in awe of the work that you're doing. If that was available when I was coming up, I just remember, for example, having to justify going to Cannes the first time around and then I was sent for like the Thursday and Friday and for anyone that understands Cannes that's the dead time Thursday and Friday right like so trying to make the most out of Thursday and Friday yeah it's just hard work but but yeah so you know these opportunities going to possible going to Cannes going to whatever it is I think is yeah I think these are opportunities and also there's a lot in what you said about being comfortable in those rooms because I still feel like a little bit of an imposter in some of those rooms. So I do like what you're saying there. So the tradition on this podcast is that you name the episode. I don't know if you remember that.
SPEAKER_01:Do we?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So based on everything that we spoke about.
SPEAKER_01:That is tough.
SPEAKER_00:It is tough.
SPEAKER_01:Based on everything we've spoken. I'm crap at thinking on the spot as well.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. I mean, I can put that down as the title if you want.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think you'll get many listeners I
SPEAKER_00:think I'll get a lot of listeners
SPEAKER_01:actually that would be quite funny wouldn't
SPEAKER_00:it yeah
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah no no no you really want that to be the title I'm crap at thinking on the spot you really
SPEAKER_01:keeping it real crap on thinking on the spot yeah why not what else
SPEAKER_00:uh all right listeners crap at thinking on the spot I'll have to check if I need to asterisk that crap or not well this is that that's the answer to why this episode is called what it is Really, really appreciated the time with you today, Lisa. I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that conversation. But again, thank you so much for joining me.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for having me.