Episode 17 - Beyond The Brief with Elizabeth Anyaegbuna

In this episode, we dive into a compelling conversation with Elizabeth, who shares a refreshingly honest take on career progression, authenticity in leadership, and navigating the media industry as a founder of a nimble, values-driven agency.

Elizabeth reflects on what it means to reach a senior position without losing oneself in the process. “You earn it, you put the work in, you do what you need to do,” she explains, “but you also recognize when something is harming you or turning you into a version of yourself you don’t like. That’s when it’s time to re-evaluate.” Her approach blends confidence with vulnerability, emphasizing the importance of holding on to your integrity, especially when you’re in a position of influence.

The conversation naturally shifts to her work with 16x9, a media agency she founded. “Like I said, we’re a media agency—strategy, planning, production. End to end, really,” she shares. Coming from a background in TV, the agency specializes in screen-based media—TV, digital, outdoor, cinema—and serves brands looking to scale, particularly those that are digital-first.

What sets 16x9 apart is its production capability baked right into the business model. “We might be producing for companies without handling their media plans at all. Everything from production to compliance—we do it,” Elizabeth explains. This holistic approach allows the agency to bridge the gaps that often exist between creative and media planning teams.

Beyond the commercial aspects, Elizabeth also brings personal values into the mix. She expresses a deep commitment to supporting more Black-owned businesses. “Sometimes they don’t have access or think it's going to be too expensive. But that’s not always the case.” She’s made it a mission—albeit quietly—to change that perception and provide the support needed.

Working as a small indie in a sea of larger agencies comes with its challenges—especially when it comes to getting onto pitch lists due to procurement barriers. “There should be a mix of all sorts—networks, big indies, and smaller players like us. It shouldn’t be so hard to get a foot in the door,” she says. Yet, Elizabeth values where 16x9 stands. Being smaller allows them to remain fluid, authentic, and selective about who they work with. “If the values aren’t aligned, we can say no,”

Your feedback is always welcome, as we strive to enhance the content's value for you. Enjoy Leadership in Colour - Voices you may not have heard from before.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

I started these conversations to discuss leadership, mentorship, growth and so much more from voices you may not have heard from before. I hope the conversations inspire you, motivate you and give you something to think about. This Leadership in Colour from myself, Shezik Khan, is supported and powered by me. Hello and welcome to the next episode of Leadership in Colour. This one I've been waiting for for quite some time, right? It's with my good friend here, Elizabeth Anyabuna. And I gotta say that's the first time I've had to say her full name out loud because I endearingly call her Queen Elizabeth, as is her stature within the media and advertising industry. But Elizabeth, why don't you give us all a better introduction than one that I just gave.

SPEAKER_01: 0:52

Thank you. And this is exciting. Yes, and thank you so much, Shez. And well done for pronouncing my name properly. First go. So yes, I'm Elizabeth Nyebina. I've been in the industry for 20-odd years. I do wear multiple hats. So I'm, I suppose, day job. I'm co-founder and CEO of 16x9, which is a media strategy and production agency. I'm also a strategic growth advisor of a responsible resourcing agency, which focuses on diverse talents and trying to balance it out and be more representative in the workforce. Recently, president of Bloom UK, 500-member women's network, co-founder of Join Our Table, which is all about amplifying black female talent in our industry. And I consult for the Hearst Networks. I've come from broadcast backgrounds, so Sky, Viacom, Turner, and A&E Networks, which is now Hearst Networks. And so I still need to hold on to a bit of that content and consumer. You know, I still need that creativity within me. So I love doing that as well. So yes, I do a lot in driving revenue and growth. And I just champion EDI and belonging across the media and have done for quite a while.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

Coming from the UK and then going to Nigeria, I assume that in boarding school you sort of got everything structured and you know everything is done in a particular way and so on and so forth. Does that help with the transition from going from London to Nigeria because you're not immediately exposed to the outer elements and the rest of the world and and and you know for example you can't get your favorite shows on on tv or you can't you know people are uh trading in a different way maybe in the shops or you know that sort of stuff like you're not exposed to as much of that because you're in boarding school or have i got that wrong

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

i mean i guess so probably i've never really looked at it like that but potentially i think i'll be honest with you i feel to some degree we weren't fully exposed because we tended to move we had our friends and family and you know we were led by that and so and at that time it was great you know in that regard I mean subsequently then of course you then had all the things that sort of then followed like they had a coup and so you know the army sort of took over and then there was an adjustment there and so don't get me wrong I'm not painting it wasn't all perfect but we yeah you're right I guess maybe to some degree being in there did mean that we did really kind of get exposed to all the other things. Although I wonder whether my dad would necessarily have allowed us to be exposed to any other things anyway, to be honest, because he was quite a strict man. Love him, but he was, you know. And so I did find it tough. I mean, I definitely did because it was just, I was grappling with feeling, I came there with the most English accents, pale, not regarded as Nigerian, you know, or black, you know, in that regard. And just a bit of a, you know, strange sort of adjustment because like I said we hadn't been coming and going so it was a real like rip the plaster off and sort of drop us in this place so it was an adjustment and so to then be sent to boarding school was even more but I think that's what my you know that's what my parents were they thought that's what they were supposed to do type thing right my sister didn't go in the end so she was a day student so lucky her but yeah so but it came with this I mean it was brutal to some degree but the age was incredible the education was incredible but it was brutal it was just literally like survival of the fittest bizarrely enough so so i ended up making some incredible friends all of us i guess partly probably protecting ourselves because we're all similar all from london literally all from london you know and we stayed friends till today um i remember once when i got to the uh i remember i remember when i was introduced you know in boarding school went to the school and someone took it upon themselves to introduce me to the only other mixed race, mixed heritage person in the school. I just said, you two, you two, you two should be friends. I mean, we weren't, I mean, we're so not the same. I mean, we're so not, we're so different, but yeah. And so I always felt that spotlight on me, but it has then provided the resilience I guess that I subsequently have had until now really to be able to handle being the only one in the room flip side ironically you know when we came back here to the UK I

SPEAKER_02: 5:54

think there was a thing at the moment where people are told to be themselves right and bring their true selves and be authentic but with all the tensions in the world and even forget the world right just like on our doorstep it's actually quite difficult to be your true self And I'm trying to sort of draw the parallels there. I'm trying to draw the parallels there between what's going on in the world right now and us actually now, me, for the first time in a long time, feeling like a bit of an outsider. And yourself growing up in, I think you said Northwest London, is that right?

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

Yeah. Yeah, so

SPEAKER_02: 6:32

growing up in Northwest London, I don't know what it was like growing up in Northwest London. I'm from South London, so... depends where you are in South London. You can be one of many or one of a few. And then going to Nigeria, where you're clearly one of a very, very few, you must have felt like you were on the outside throughout your life, right? And that's a difficult thing to get your head around because that's the motherland. And this is also the motherland.

SPEAKER_01: 7:00

Oh, 100%. It's been a journey. I remember once when I was... This is back here. I was... I had just some sort of a little job that I had, and a friend of mine had come to see me, meet me for lunch, you know, it was a guy, a friend of mine, and he, he's mixed heritage as well, I want to say just slightly darker than me, but not by much, and so he came to sort of meet me, and my boss said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, your friend's just come to, I think it was, yes, it was unannounced, yes, it was a bit of a surprise, something like that, and so she said, a friend of yours come to see you, he came, I said, oh, yeah, describe him, I thought, yeah, I couldn't place who he was. He goes, oh, you know, he's really, he was dark, he was tall, you know, he was quite dark, and this and that. I was thinking, you've described, he's not far off me, which means that you view me as dark. And yet in Nigeria, I'm viewed as pale or light or white. And so you just find yourself crying, right, okay, where exactly, as you rightly said, where exactly do I belong, like really belong, you know? Because yes, you're right, you're finding yourself sort of not quite, belonging, I suppose, because of how you're perceived or how you're treated, right? So yeah, it has been an interesting one. And it also makes you think, gosh, I mean, people, are you then judged based on just how you look? It doesn't matter about your, until you then open your mouth and you start talking about your history and what you are, whatever, and then you find common ground, et cetera. But that first, you know, first impression really, so you are viewed based on just how you look and the color of your skin and you're put in whichever box that is, which is an outsider's box or certainly not the majority, right? And so it is a bit of an interesting one because it's a, you know, you've got two sides, right? So you see both motherlands, as you rightly said, and not necessarily looked at as fully accepted in either one, which makes you float around in this sort of space. That was a journey. Now, and thank goodness I've done the studies that I've done to some degree, because it did help me, right? So I did some studying around, I don't know whether you know Steve Biko, but he wrote this, he's all about black consciousness, yes, he was a civil rights, yeah, well, civil rights, he was certainly a freedom fighter, right? In fact, I believe he was before Mandela, certainly up there with him. But he coined this thing around black consciousness, yeah, and talking about black is beautiful and it's about the consciousness, it's not the skin color, it's about you, you know, and you in that space and where you belong, as opposed to whether you are light or dark or anywhere in between, you know? And I got comfortable or realized that it wasn't about my tone. It was about where I feel like I belong and the consciousness around it. And so being black is about consciousness. And I embrace that. And that has made me settle into where I am, you know, as opposed to where it was before, which is feeling like it's on the outside. Do I still feel that way sometimes? Yes, but I'm made to feel that way. But that's not... me that's somebody viewing or having i guess whatever view they have but i'm comfortable in my space but it's been a journey to to get there i mean i went to um the two places it was a revelation but i went to cuba and it was the first time where i felt like i was in the majority and i'm not even from cuba because a lot of people just looked tonally like me And it was an incredible feeling, which caught me off guard because I wasn't obviously expecting that. And Brazil, I'm not from either of those places. And some places in the Caribbean, St. Lucia being one of them, where, you know, people almost look past you because, oh yeah, you might look a bit more Western dressed, but you're one of us, aren't you? And I go, wow, okay, I'm not from here. And yet somehow I'm accepted or assumed that I am just based on the way I look. which I think is a bit of a conundrum for a lot of people who have a mixed, not conundrum, but it's just, it is a reality for a lot of people who are from different countries. It plays with your

SPEAKER_02: 11:32

mind, right? Like it's difficult to get your head around. We're in this cosmopolitan city where there are a hundred different shades of people. Why should I be felt like I'm an outsider? Yeah. And then secondly, I'm going back to the country of my parents or whichever part of my heritage. We grew up eating, broadly speaking, the same food. We spoke about the same things. Your parents were talking about the same things that my parents were talking about. They had the same stories. How are we different? And okay, yes, we might have slightly different lived experiences, but someone from North Nigeria versus South Nigeria, for our board have slightly different lived experiences as well. I appreciate it's not as extreme as someone coming from North West London, but the point still remains that Surely that's interesting, not something to put someone on the outside. It's actually almost a reason to put them on the inside.

SPEAKER_01: 12:23

Yeah. No, I think, yeah, I think that very well-worn phrase of, you know, we have more in common than what makes us, you know, than what makes us different is so true. I don't know why we fixate on certain things more than others. But you're right, if we seek to find those common grounds, yeah, I mean, I am sure, I speak to friends of mine and, you know, who are from, you know, I've got a very good friend whose family are from Pakistan, she's from Pakistan, I've got friends from, you know, India, I've got friends from the Caribbean, and we have so many things in common, I mean, it's so familiar when you're talking about the parents and what they want you to study, you know, and it's generally engineering, law, accountancy, you know, and literally it's the humour, it's that joke, whether it is someone from the african family or someone from the you know he's that thing about yeah my parents did that you know and so you know and all that sort of stuff and um or our experiences around uh colonialism say for example and the impact on on countries you know or slave trade depending on you know who you're talking to um or being a brown skin person in even though you're part of the global majority but you're in a place where you are deemed minority and then and then so so or the types of food where you've got the influence of these things like yeah i get that i can eat that quite comfortably because actually there's reference somehow you know in in the food that we uh you know eat you know and so on so you've got so many things across it's actually quite remarkable that i think we should tap more into that really than what divides us you know or makes us different

SPEAKER_02: 14:09

agree so on that same note then What does authenticity mean to you?

SPEAKER_01: 14:15

I think authenticity is actually, to me, being real. but also evidenced, yeah? So you are who you are. What you're talking about is authentic, not only in what you're saying, but actually showing up, right? So in other words, you're not only talking it, but you're actually kind of walking it, you know? Otherwise, yeah, I think it needs to be evidenced in order for it to be authentic in my mind, you know? If I were talking about inclusion or diversity and all that, this sort of stuff and I could talk from my lived experience of course I could talk that but I've then not done any work in the space I can't sit here and then go yeah I'm authentic this is there's an authenticity to my an opinion fully there's an authenticity to my story of course my experience but when I'm talking about the work I need to kind of show that I've actually done it you know also I think you need to be either yeah schooled educated have the experience all of that in order to actually say that you're authentically representing something as opposed to appropriating it you know and so yeah I think yeah that's what I think you know you show up it's real and evidenced

SPEAKER_02: 15:40

yeah I think that's well put and the reason why I asked that question is because I usually ask, how important is it for you? I know you well enough to know that authenticity is very important. And as you said, even within your studies, you looked into your heritage and also around social justice and injustice around the world. tie that together with law I can't imagine I'd ever want to be on the other side of it with a hell of a lot of insight and the other person doesn't stand a chance

SPEAKER_01: 16:13

I'm going

SPEAKER_02: 16:15

to switch gears ever so slightly Can you talk me through your early days in your career, your first job and how you ended up in this industry?

SPEAKER_01: 16:24

Yeah, so I ended up in this industry. So my first job in this industry was at Sky. A friend of mine was working there and she told me there was a job. And so my first job was in traffic, actually, at Sky Media. And I had no idea what that was. I just fell into it like a lot of other people have. But I knew that that I wanted to work for a broadcaster. I'm articulating it this way, but that's not necessarily how I would have articulated it at the time. I just knew I wanted to work for a broadcaster. And I knew that I wanted to work for Sky. No, I worked for Sky, but I knew that I wanted to work for Viacom MTV, particularly because of course it was influencing me at the time and I loved it. So yeah, I started at Traffic. I was there for nine months. to be exact, before they realised I was more of a salesperson, you know, and then moved into ad sales, and yeah, basically, I have to say, Sky was brilliant for training, providing that foundation, because, I mean, it was really fully, you know, fully, when it came to sort of providing the training, your experience as someone, and it's given me that foundation to then sort of move into where I am now, and so I worked at Sky, I was more on the investment side. Then moved into digital. Sky had Nickelodeon as well as obviously Sky Channels and some other ones. I moved into Nickelodeon for a bit on the digital side as well as David Sky. Then I moved from there to Viacom when Viacom took over the sales for Nickelodeon and obviously had MTV at the time and so on and what is now Comedy Central. So I moved into digital. Came back into, I did, so I headed up digital via com, the website sort of there, which was MTV as well as Nickelodeon at the time. Thought, you know, I've got the spot sales, as it were, investment, I've got the digital side thing, but I wanted the partnerships, you know, that, that, because I guess I suppose the creativity in there just need a little bit more. I love, don't get me wrong, I love the digital, it was great because it was microsites, it's all, you know, immersing yourself in kids' content, it was great, you could just forget get the real world and actually just immerse yourself in all these wonderful games and activities and things like that but yes I came back to do partnerships and sponsorships and branded content and things like that then from there from Viacom I decided to So, yeah, that's when I was sort of moving up, you know, really. So, account director, partnership director at that point. And then I moved, shifted a little bit to the left, or right, I don't know. Yeah, I took up a role that set up an ad sales department in a company that was serving sub-Saharan Africa. So, I was based in the UK. There was a company called GTV, and they had bought the English Premiership football rights which is gold dust in Africa of course they had other sort of content as well entertainment content ironically in Nickelodeon and some other pieces of content so very familiar content but they had acquired that rights and but they had no they just had no advertising I'd say so I I set that up there it was an incredible experience because I got to go to Kenya Uganda obviously Nigeria South Africa yeah and just widened my not only experience but just experience in meeting all these people and sort of doing all these things and it wasn't just on air it was on the ground because they were invested in local football and what was great is that you could see the money that you brought in with sponsorships and advertising you could see it travel all the way into the end point which was impacting on these local football teams who could because whether it's the you know their shirts that you were sponsoring or funding or so on, they could put on their games and then you then filmed it and showed it on TV, of course, which bars and hotels could then air so customers would then come in and sort of watch it. I mean, you literally could see how you were impacted and I absolutely loved it. Was it hard work? Yes. It was crazy. You know, sort of driving, sorry, flying to three or four different countries in one go, certainly knackering. I had some incredible, bizarre conversations you know with people in very interesting places because that's how it works very much business pure that's it you've either got something I want or you don't and that's that I had to adjust I did, you know, and that was where the benefit of living in Nigeria played off, I have to say, because it was not that the whole of Africa is like that, but I could shift into that sort of mode, you know, and understand the culture there and apply that, you know, and the authenticity there. then presented itself, right? As opposed to someone coming in without any real knowledge of the space, you know? And so I used that, actually. I did. It came to my aid. And then, so then, after that, so that was, yeah, well, like I said, I set it up, you know, it was like a blank sheet of paper, and then we did incredibly well, you know, really, really did well. Unfortunately, the economic sort of crash came in at the time, so came back into the UK, came to Viacom, back to Viacom, then Sky again, then in networks and then i set up 16x9 where i decided to come on to the other side and actually i set up a media agency that had production in there you know as well as the media strategy planning and buying and so all my knowledge from a broadcast i suppose sort of space and digital space you know coming at it from more of a business angle as opposed to transactional or supposed to write, okay, here's your, you know, here's your audience. So we're just going to cut it that way. No, it's more like, let's sit down and actually really understand your KPIs and let's understand what it is you want to do and having the knowledge of how things are produced and, you know, the challenges of, you know, compliance or the challenges of programming, or even how it ultimately needs to be get to air. So for example, I had all that knowledge in, in, in applying it there. So, so yeah, so, so, and end up at sort of 60 by nine, which is where I am.

SPEAKER_02: 22:59

That is one hell of a journey, right? But it's like you manifested this role at Viacom and then made it happen. You saw MTV, you were like, I want to be on MTV.

SPEAKER_01: 23:11

100%. Yeah, I knew I was going to work there. I mean, I just, I believe in manifestations. I do. And I know you have to work to then ultimately get there. It doesn't just drop out of the sky. But I think you have to have that mindset and that will and determination to get there. And I did, yeah. And it was an incredible experience, really. We did some incredible things. creating stuff, you know, for NFL, Adidas, Nike, ad-funded content, we were in New Orleans, creating something with the Saints, you know, the NFL team, and MTV Base, yeah, at the time, of course, with Trevor Nelson, and put something together, which was then on air, and all the stuff for Adidas, I mean, with all the football, it's wonderful to be able to do that, as well as, you know, things around content, as well as as well as just doing these types of campaigns and deals that were just so multi-layered with content that you just enjoyed. You know when you're representing a brand that you really consume and that you actually really believe in and love, it makes it so much easier. Of course, it wasn't just MTV. We had Nickelodeon. Love Nickelodeon because, of course, it's kids and so on. I was the coolest. I mean, my parents, sorry, my kids loved me because I was talking to Nickelodeon or MTV and so is youth or kids and it keeps you I don't know, joyous, certainly. So I enjoy that. And then even when I went to Turner Media, again, it was Carter Network, Boomerang. So I have had a lot of that, being in that sort of young youth and young sort of content for a while, certainly in my industry. And I, yeah, it was good fun, really. It was dealing with some brands.

SPEAKER_02: 25:05

It sounds amazing. Like I said, I mean, the ability to say that you've met all these footballers and you've worked on all these, you know, great campaigns and the rest of it. And to say that you worked on the brands that you really wanted to work on and those that you have an affinity to is fantastic. Manifestation aside, although I don't mind if that's the advice that you give, what advice would you give to someone who is starting up right now in their career?

SPEAKER_01: 25:35

I would say certainly to... not be afraid to take risks. And there are some people, I've met some people sort of starting out in their career and they feel like they've got it all planned. So this is quite narrow. This is where I'm going. But they're starting. So they don't really know about all these other ones. And there's nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day, if you've got a singular intention and you end up and that's all good, it's fine. I guess some people who want to become a doctor who start and they become that doctor and that's what they want and that's kind of okay. But I guess what I'm saying is if an opportunity presents itself, you're thinking, don't be afraid to take risks because first of all, you're at the beginning of your career so you can afford to experiment and sort of see what's out there. You never know where it's going to take you, really, ultimately. A couple of times, I had a couple of things presented to me and I didn't take them. I didn't take them because I was a little bit like... Involved in one case we involved believe in going to another country, which now I think I should have done so financial experience and another one was yes, you know something similar and I didn't and There was a real reason. I was just kind of playing safe. I was just playing safe and I should have done right So I just think take risks 100% not take risk. Just go for it, right, you know And I just the other thing is actually really to to be true to who you are and not lose that because I talk about my career as I've come along but I do remember when I used to go for interviews but I used to have a certain look I used to blow dry my hair straight I used to tone myself down I used to tone my blackness down actually yeah because I felt that way I could avoid any bias or any kind of issue I literally blow dry put it in a hair bun at the back centre parting No makeup to hone in on any features. Keep my hands sort of where they are and do it, yeah. And at some point I was like, what am I doing? Just have to be me. Now, you have that journey to get there, and you know we can sit here and actually tell someone who just started, well, you need to do this and this. No, no, no, everyone has to get there at their pace and their journey, and the penny drops. You have a moment at some point where it just sort of drops, where you go, actually, I'm me, and I don't need to code switch. I don't need to be a version of myself. You either accept me for me, or you don't. And so I would just say, don't lose that. Don't lose that, who you are.

SPEAKER_02: 28:17

Yeah, I think it's interesting what you say. So Faisal Kamali, who was at Turner as well, or he's at Turner, and he also mentioned that he didn't know what trafficking was and he'd sort of kicked off in that sort of role. And I think Ravleen at Microsoft also said something similar about just going for it. And I think it's really, really good advice to just... Go for it, right? You can figure it out later. There's usually support within the establishment. I mean, if you're going to a good business, there'll be support then. And actually, regardless to what sort of business it is, your objectives are aligned. If you succeed, they succeed. So it's on them to support you. So there is no such thing as stupid questions, really, in the early days. Just go for it. And I'd say that there are networks out there as well, like MIFA being one of them, and there are others

SPEAKER_01: 29:06

as well. 100% networks, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 29:09

That can help you. Bloom, you know, that can really help

SPEAKER_01: 29:11

you. Yeah, Bloom, Networks Join Our Table. There's so many networks out there now, which I didn't have, actually, and I wish I had. I can't believe how many people of colour rather until i joined me fast like wow like i just where have you all been and not that you only need that you know but you certainly do need reference points you know people who totally get certain experiences that you've got without saying too much right you know so or who can kind of support you and spotlight you and do whatever yeah so yeah definitely networks are incredibly powerful and i 100 believe them having a mentor or a champion you know someone who truly can yeah not only champion but open and doors that maybe you may not be able to do. And just, you know, just be kind to yourself. You know, you're not going to get everything right first time. There are going to be some mistakes along the way. And, you know, you just pick yourself up and know that that's all part of the journey really. And just be kind to yourself while still needing to be certainly flexible, you know, to apply a level of flexibility. If you're asking for flexibility from companies or you're asking for all of that and all that, need to you need to be giving your bit as well you know so there needs to be you know a relationship you know and between the two in order to get to where you need to get to as opposed to demanding everything sit down go yeah well this is what it is right you know because you are coming in to to something and so there needs to be you know that's that working through what works for you as well as what works for for what you're coming in you know which you get along the line yeah you get resilience if you go along i mean i sort of say to someone now that you reach a certain point you're in that sort of stage you are at that sort of point or position where you're you know you're entitled to not give a shit do you know what i mean and of course i care what i'm trying to say is if something isn't working for me it's not working for me and that's that and i've earned that space to be able to kind of not give a shit about it and move

SPEAKER_02: 31:20

on. There's this scene in, I think it's called The Gambler with Mark Wahlberg. And he basically owes this guy a lot of money. And I don't want to give away the plot, but he's not very, at this point, it seems like he's not very good with money, right? Like he makes it, he loses it, he makes it. And the other guy comes, you know, that is his loan shark or whatever. He's talking to him about the position of FU. and it's like look this is where you want to get to in life you want to get into the

SPEAKER_03: 31:54

place

SPEAKER_02: 31:55

where you can say F you and that's it so that's what you're working towards so stop sort of like messing around and losing all this money like this is where you want to get to and uh that's not the exact sentiment of the scene but uh that's the sentiment that i take away from from that scene and

SPEAKER_01: 32:13

well and that's exactly i just tried to be polite with the language i was using but that's exactly right you know you reach that position where that's exactly right you get to that position and that's it you earn it you know you put the work in you do what you need to do but you also recognize you you know and yeah and and not to compromise on the true you you know really if it's harming you or if it's making you be a harmful version of yourself because you're having to then you need to kind of re-evaluate

SPEAKER_02: 32:48

agreed agreed all right so so talking about you let's talk about you What's going on with 16x9? Right,

SPEAKER_01: 32:55

like I said, we're a media agency, so strategy, planning, and production. And yeah, we sort of end to end, really. We do focus more on your screen-based media. So I've obviously come from TV, of course, that's where it's going to be, so TV and video, so TV, outdoor, digital, cinema, so screen-based media. So we tend to attract those types of brands that are looking to scale up maybe digital first or yeah just want more scale really tend to look at those but we also do produce you know which i guess stands us out a bit with usb because we roll that into our company so sometimes we might be producing for companies and not actually doing their media plans at all you know and everything from actually producing that to making an ad compliant anywhere in between so yeah it's you know sort of working on that obviously need a small indie in the ocean of big indies and network agencies so there's a lot of competition and so yeah seeking more brands you know to do that I do have like a side sort of not side but a personal intention in supporting more black owned businesses you know to get them on you know to do their media for them because I think sometimes they don't have access or they the knowledge around, you know, sort of to help and help. Or they think, oh, I can't go there, you know, it's going to be too expensive. No, it's not. So to work with those, but that's a personal thing for me and have done that. So that's, yeah, 16 by 9, you know, sort of business as usual type thing. Yeah, on that front, as well as, like I say, all the other things I kind of do in and around it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:45

Yeah, and it sounds like a business that's really needed, right? Like that hand-holding from production through to delivery. It's really strange that that is... I think that sets you apart because it almost feels logical that that would be included in some way or another.

SPEAKER_01: 35:01

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, we come at it from a different, like I say, because we've gotten so used to, not because we've got the experience of working with clients and working also with those who produce content and those who know audience. So we can really kind of, we have approach of sitting around the table, you know, right, okay, what is your business objective? As opposed to, like I said, the approach which would be here's our target and we'll go on run numbers and then go right you need to be here here and here here yeah of course you need the data to inform your uh strategy but ultimately we do apply context as well right you know like a good textual buy you know where you're placing it you know what's yeah like i said what's what's what is the business what are your kpis who really is your target audience and then also yeah this is what you're thinking but how about this wild card here, you know, and sort of stretch it, but just be that kind of, you know, that kind of business partner in a way, which is more, we're senior, but we roll our sleeves up and kind of are close, you know, work closely with the client, right, you know, so we tend to have that approach. I mean, as a smaller indie, you know, we don't always, you know, when it comes to things like how you're pitching, you know, when you're getting on the pitch list and things like that, that can be a challenge, of course, because when we're not necessarily always going to get there because of the way procurement happens sometimes and that's i think something that should be looked at you know so i think you should have a mixture of all sorts you know your yes you can have your networks yes you can have your big indies and then have some someone like us as well in the mix you know to pitch for business as opposed to having to really battle to get that door open you know so yeah that that's always a challenge you know for us but we like our where we are right because it allows us to be fluid it allows us to be authentic it allows us to be transparent and it also allows us to make decisions on who we want to work with and who we don't, you know, if the values aren't

SPEAKER_02: 37:15

aligned. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And to be fair, I've probably taken up more time of yours than I should have done. No, me as well.

SPEAKER_03: 37:24

I

SPEAKER_02: 37:25

could speak for the rest of the day to you. I think there's a lot there. I mean, even just picking apart the RFP process there, I think is a conversation for another time. So tradition is that I let you name the episode. So what would you like to name the episode?

SPEAKER_01: 37:39

Right, now, this is the bit where, yeah, okay, so this is a first, right? Let's see. Beyond the Brief with Elizabeth. Beyond

SPEAKER_02: 37:46

the Brief. Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your reasoning behind that?

SPEAKER_01: 37:52

Well, because it's beyond that, isn't it? It's beyond the brief media, obviously, playing on that. Also, the word brief is more than a summary, so it's getting into detail. It's simple, and I like simple. conversational language and yeah i'm thinking that maybe be on the brief with elizabeth i don't know

SPEAKER_02: 38:16

i think that's brilliant i think it's absolutely brilliant elizabeth thank you so much for uh for being such a fantastic guest today honestly i really enjoyed it and love to have you back on the podcast again

SPEAKER_01: 38:26

oh totally i've absolutely loved it as well thank you for having me and i will absolutely be more than happy to be back with you